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  1. #1
    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ed-chris-huhne

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Cabinet ministers have agreed a far-reaching, legally binding "green deal" that will commit the UK to two decades of drastic cuts in carbon emissions. The package will require sweeping changes to domestic life, transport and business and will place Britain at the forefront of the global battle against climate change.
    The deal was hammered out after tense arguments between ministers who had disagreed over whether the ambitious plans to switch to more green energy were affordable. The row had pitted the energy secretary, Chris Huhne, who strongly backed the plans, against the chancellor, George Osborne, and the business secretary, Vince Cable, who were concerned about the cost and potential impact on the economy.

    However, after the intervention of David Cameron, Huhne is now expected to tell parliament that agreement has been struck to back the plans in full up to 2027. He will tell MPs that the government will accept the recommendations of the independent committee on climate change for a new carbon budget. The deal puts the UK ahead of any other state in terms of the legal commitments it is making in the battle to curb greenhouse gases.

    With the Treasury and Cable's business department sceptical, green groups had feared that ministers would refuse to back the committee and were accusing them of reneging on Cameron's promise to lead the "greenest government ever". But with Clegg and the Liberal Democrats desperate to boast a success on one of their key policies, supporters of a deal won the day. A government source told the Observer: "This is a victory for the cause of enlightenment over the dark forces at the Treasury."
    Another senior government figure said: "This country is now the world leader in cutting carbon emissions. We are the only nation with legally binding commitments past 2020."

    This point was also stressed by David Kennedy, chief executive of the committee. "We have moved into uncharted territory and are going to be watched carefully by other countries. No one else has a target like this."

    The new budget puts the government on target to meet a reduction by 2050 of 80% of carbon emissions compared with 1990 levels. The committee has said that to reach this carbon emissions should be cut by 60% by 2030.

    Ministers believe that major companies involved in developing offshore wind technology – such as Siemens, Vestas and General Electric – will now be keener to invest in Britain, knowing it is committed to a huge expansion in renewable energy. It is also hoped that the commitment to renewable energy – the committee says 40% of the UK's power should come from wind, wave and tide sources by 2030 – will stimulate new industries.

    These would include the development of tidal power plants, wave generators and carbon capture and storage technology – which would extract carbon dioxide from coal and oil plants and pump it into underground chambers. All three technologies, if developed in Britain, could be major currency earners.
    The committee's report says the new carbon deal will require that heat pumps will have had to be installed in 2.6m homes by 2025. It also says that by the same date 31% of new cars, and 14% of those on the road overall, will be electric. Experts say a total of £16bn of investment will be needed every year to meet the commitment. Some of this money will be raised through increases in electricity prices.

    However, failure to act now and decarbonise electricity generation would mean the UK would have to pay even more to replace power plants in future. "If we have to pay more in future that will slow economic growth, so we need to act now," said Kennedy.

    The decision to back the carbon budget comes a year after Cameron announced that his government would be the greenest on record, a claim that last week led the heads of 15 green campaign groups to write to the prime minister to tell him he was in danger of losing his way on environmental policy.
    The letter said the coalition should promote a green economy with "urgency and resolve" if it was to honour its promise. The groups include Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth and the RSPB.

    Tuesday's expected announcement is certain to be welcomed by green groups though they will fear further backtracking in years to come. Huhne recently announced plans to invite green lobby groups in to scrutinise policy in order to hold ministers to their promises. They have been impressed with parts of the government's programme, including progress on establishment of a green investment bank.




    This is fantastic news if we can pull it off. No other country has made such a large and legally binding commitment to cutting carbon emissions, and the international spotlight will be on Britain to do it right.

    But if we can pull it off the benefits will be great. Aside from the cutting of emissions, Britain will be guaranteed energy security in a time of dwindling fossil fuels (And with some luck it might lead to a big decrease in the amount of wars and dodgy deals with regimes we involve ourselves in) and it will provide big opportunities for the opening up of a massive green energy industry in this country and all the jobs, investment, expertise and export opportunities that will bring

    If this is acted upon I feel it will be the best thing to happen to this country for a long time and it will give us a massive head start on the international stage. The vision of a 'Green Energy Revolution' to match that of the Industrial Revolution I find very satisfying. But there are some big obstacles in the way (Namely much of the technology that will be needed to achieve this is not currently available)
    Last edited by Azog 150; May 15, 2011 at 11:32 AM.
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    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    A catastrophe can be historic too.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    A catastrophe can be historic too.
    And how is this going to be catastrophic?
    Hammer & Sickle - Karacharovo

    And I drank it strait down.

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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookah Smoking Caterpiller View Post
    And how is this going to be catastrophic?
    Putting huge costs on Britain to solve a problem that don't exist, Global Warming which is hardly catastrophic, and wasting resources to force a conversion from oil now.

    Britain still have 400 millions metric tonnes of coal to boot if oil would dry up and nuclear makes more sense then expensive non-reliable ''Green energy''.

    This is a bad deal for a country in debt.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

  5. #5

    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Putting huge costs on Britain to solve a problem that don't exist, Global Warming which is hardly catastrophic, and wasting resources to force a conversion from oil now.
    It's renewable, strategically stable power produced within Britain's borders. No more influence by foreign crisises.
    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    Hmmm, I am beginning to think the whole save the planet thing or I should say save the human species and its present high teq living standards by using solar/wind power is academic. In 50 years the human species population will have at least doubled in size. There will not be enough arable land or fresh water to sustain the species never mind power sources. Collapse will be inevitable. The law of nature will prevail. The best bet for those of us now alive is to enjoy our modern day life styles if we are lucky enough to live in a decent society and let the future take care of its self.
    The population cannot possibly grow above what the planet can sustain, for obvious reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    If the UK can move away from imported Oil in all but motoring (electric cars are still some way from being genuinely viable) the cost to the average household in terms of energy bills would reduce noticably. Not to mention the current oil price hike in the UK would have a much reduced impact because we wouldn't rely on imported oil for absolutely everything.
    I don't think electric cars will ever replace the internal combustion engine. Hydrocarbons are an excellent way to store energy, so I imagine petrol will be produced artificially in plants powered by the mains.
    Last edited by removeduser_4536284751384; May 23, 2011 at 05:20 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    What about nuclear energy?

  7. #7
    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by gsoxx View Post
    What about nuclear energy?

    Apparently the plan by 2050 is to have 40% of power generated through nuclear energy (Twice as much as currently) and 40% through renewables (A tenfold increase)

    Other targets as stated in the article:

    The new budget puts the government on target to meet a reduction by 2050 of 80% of carbon emissions compared with 1990 levels. The committee has said that to reach this carbon emissions should be cut by 60% by 2030.

    Ministers believe that major companies involved in developing offshore wind technology – such as Siemens, Vestas and General Electric – will now be keener to invest in Britain, knowing it is committed to a huge expansion in renewable energy. It is also hoped that the commitment to renewable energy – the committee says 40% of the UK's power should come from wind, wave and tide sources by 2030 – will stimulate new industries.
    These would include the development of tidal power plants, wave generators and carbon capture and storage technology – which would extract carbon dioxide from coal and oil plants and pump it into underground chambers. All three technologies, if developed in Britain, could be major currency earners.
    The committee's report says the new carbon deal will require that heat pumps will have had to be installed in 2.6m homes by 2025. It also says that by the same date 31% of new cars, and 14% of those on the road overall, will be electric. Experts say a total of £16bn of investment will be needed every year to meet the commitment. Some of this money will be raised through increases in electricity prices.
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    A catastrophe can be historic too.
    hence why its so important they sign this in order to prevent said catastrophe.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    hence why its so important they sign this in order to prevent said catastrophe.
    Global Warming Climate Change Anthroponegic Penguin/Polar Bear Massacre Nonsense BS ?

    Whatever is the name of it currently, Climate change isn't a catastrophic ... there is nothing to prevent, except the continual spread of this alarmist BS.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Global Warming Climate Change Anthroponegic Penguin/Polar Bear Massacre Nonsense BS ?

    Whatever is the name of it currently, Climate change isn't a catastrophic ... there is nothing to prevent, except the continual spread of this alarmist BS.

    Except you have completely missed the main benefits of this. Namely massive export oppurtunities, attracting big buisness and energy security. Global warming isn't the only reason, or even the main reason, to move towards a much greener and more energy self-sufficient country.
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    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Azog 150 View Post
    Except you have completely missed the main benefits of this. Namely massive export oppurtunities, attracting big buisness and energy security. Global warming isn't the only reason, or even the main reason, to move towards a much greener and more energy self-sufficient country.
    Greener is not convincing, so lets move to the nuts.

    The only investment I see with this is British tax payers heavily subsidizing this, so it is not exactly an ''investment'' has you pay to have it.

    The exorbitant cost of this means to you will be exporting subsidies to other countries.

    Nuclear makes more sense, building existing and trying to develop Thorium and Fussion reactors would go a long way.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Global Warming Climate Change Anthroponegic Penguin/Polar Bear Massacre Nonsense BS ?

    Whatever is the name of it currently, Climate change isn't a catastrophic ... there is nothing to prevent, except the continual spread of this alarmist BS.
    Then just take it as a more sensible usage of resources that have a definite amount. Britain surely won't ruin herself with this.
    Of course your "Let's burn coal again, when the oil runs out!" has a certain charm too.

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    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    @Poach.

    Good point about Fusion, something I didn't really consider. As stated this is certainly quite a risk the government is taking.


    Quote Originally Posted by gsoxx View Post
    Then just take it as a more sensible usage of resources that have a definite amount. Britain surely won't ruin herself with this.

    Indeed, and if this does turns out to be as big a money maker as predicted it could well pay for itself.

    I might be a bit over-optimistic though
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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Global Warming Climate Change Anthroponegic Penguin/Polar Bear Massacre Nonsense BS ?

    Whatever is the name of it currently, Climate change isn't a catastrophic ... there is nothing to prevent, except the continual spread of this alarmist BS.
    Why is it ? Please please say the record snowfalls disprove global warming.... Oh please do

  15. #15
    SonOfOdin's Avatar More tea?
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Whatever is the name of it currently, Climate change isn't a catastrophic ... there is nothing to prevent, except the continual spread of this alarmist BS.
    You do realise that pollution is hazardous to human health, right?
    /The Eagle Standard/Under the patronage of Omnipotent-Q/Werder Bremen fan/

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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Bad idea, whole Europe is dropping this Green energy BS. In fact the only hope to reduce the use of carbon fossil fuel is by increasing the share of nuclear energy.

    Green energy can be profitable where you have steady and strong flux of wind like in Denmark (maybe in Scotland there is something similar) but for the rest too much costs for too few results.

  17. #17
    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Principe Alessandro View Post
    Bad idea, whole Europe is dropping this Green energy BS. In fact the only hope to reduce the use of carbon fossil fuel is by increasing the share of nuclear energy.

    Green energy can be profitable where you have steady and strong flux of wind like in Denmark (maybe in Scotland there is something similar) but for the rest too much costs for too few results.

    Green Energy technologies are constantly evolving. It is not expected to achieve these goals with current technologies (So in that sense it is a very big risk- but one which could be very rewarding)

    The British Isles have massive potential for renewable energy generation. Tidal energy is thus far largely untapped and yet some of the worlds strongest tides in our waters. Off-shore wind is another area of great potential, as is geothermal energy.

    Bear in mind this is a long term goal. It is not expected to happen over night. This agreement is legally binding until 2027.
    Last edited by Azog 150; May 15, 2011 at 11:50 AM.
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Principe Alessandro View Post
    Bad idea, whole Europe is dropping this Green energy BS. In fact the only hope to reduce the use of carbon fossil fuel is by increasing the share of nuclear energy.

    Green energy can be profitable where you have steady and strong flux of wind like in Denmark (maybe in Scotland there is something similar) but for the rest too much costs for too few results.
    Green Energy isn't limited to wind turbines... Goes to show your knowledge in the field...


    Also, explain why the glaciers worldwide are retreating if there is no climate change?
    Last edited by SPECTREtm; May 24, 2011 at 09:54 AM.

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    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by SPECTREtm View Post
    Green Energy isn't limited to wind turbines... Goes to show your knowledge in the field...


    Also, explain why the glaciers worldwide are retreating if there is no climate change?

    Unfortunately our government does seem to think its limited to wind turbines...
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    Nevins's Avatar Semper Gumby
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    Default Re: Britain signs historic and legally binding 'green deal'

    How in the world do they plan on generating 40% of their energy (and the level required will be higher then than it is now) off renewables? Or are they just banking on magic scientific breakthroughs to take care of it?
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