So tell me what is wrong with the horses?

[Inazuma]

It seems like every game people complain about the horses. WHAT exactly is wrong with their model? I don't get it.

[Humble Warrior]

Horses seem fine to me, except the animation looks a little ropey. They don`t quite move like real horses do.

[Raimeken]

IMO they're just too big

[teafanatic]

They're way too big for Japanese horses at the time

[priam11]

They're way too big for Japanese horses at the time

Seriously?

[Altimis]

They're way too big for Japanese horses at the time

How its too big??? they called "War horse" for reason

not slimy horse for child playing

[Eien]

How its too big??? they called "War horse" for reason

not slimy horse for child playing

Geographically speaking, Japan isn't the best place for horse-breeding, and their stock of horses were not the same as used in Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_..._warfare#Japan note that alot of their horses were brought in from chinese/korea, hence the smaller stature of those breeds.

[Grythius Avalorius]

How its too big??? they called "War horse" for reason

not slimy horse for child playing

Same reason the Greeks didnt use horses...Japan isnt the greatest pastureland. The size of the horse is everything. Being called a "war" horse doesnt make it a huge horse, just means it has been bred and trained for "war", meaning they dont scare easily in the chaos of battle, or may be swifter than other horses. Greeks and Romans had "war" horses that were more comparable to a pony due to the average height of greeks/romans.

[clibinarium]

Yes seriously, they are huge in comparison to the real thing. The size of a horse can be crucial in terms of how they are used tactically; it has been argued that the small size of Japanese horses at the time meant they could not be used very effectively in a mass charge, say as European knights were, they just don't have the mass and strength for it. Whether this is true or not I'm undecided, but its definitely a relevant consideration.

[Daria]

Yes seriously, they are huge in comparison to the real thing. The size of a horse can be crucial in terms of how they are used tactically; it has been argued that the small size of Japanese horses at the time meant they could not be used very effectively in a mass charge, say as European knights were, they just don't have the mass and strength for it. Whether this is true or not I'm undecided, but its definitely a relevant consideration.

Keep in mind though that the Japanese were also very small at the time as well. The Chinese would routinely refer to Japan as "The Dwarf Kingdom" (I'm not joking) so I guess its all relative.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Yes seriously, they are huge in comparison to the real thing. The size of a horse can be crucial in terms of how they are used tactically; it has been argued that the small size of Japanese horses at the time meant they could not be used very effectively in a mass charge, say as European knights were, they just don't have the mass and strength for it. Whether this is true or not I'm undecided, but its definitely a relevant consideration.

I guess somebody forgot to tell Shingen this.

[Forward Observer]

Aside from size, I think the modeling of the horses in Shogun 2 is decent, but that their textures at some distances are way too shiny. This tends to make them look a bit metallic or plastic to me--much like the armor on the troops. Atmosphere tends to make even shiny objects look dull at a distance. That's while modelers use dull coat spray on their military models to make them look more realistic when viewed close up.

My only other complaints are that some of the cavalry animations are distracting---especially those when chasing routing troops. They swish back and forth in coordinated unison like a school of fish. I find this fishtailing to look very odd and very unrealistic. IMHO, the cavalry in the older NapoleonTW looks a lot better when chasing routers in this respect.


Also, as modeled in the game, a general's unit cannot walk at the same pace as their men or even other cav units. Watch as they approach in a formation and you will see them constantly start and stop to keep their distance. It seems odd that their walking speed appears to be different than all other cav units.



From what I have read, you gents are correct about the horses as modeled being a too large as compared to the pony sized breeds that were used in feudal Japan, but the public is more used to seeing modern western horses as used in movies and the like.

Even Kurosawa used larger Western breeds in his movies such as "Ran", mainly because the indigenous breeds were simply not available for such use in any quantity--many being endangered and close to extinction until recent years.

However, if the developer had modeled the smaller sized breeds, then I'm sure we would have eventually had to hear the old joke: "Aim low boys, the're ridin' Shetland ponies".

Cheers

[Pharoah]

I think the horses look fine

[Arbitrary Crusader]

Re: So tell me what is wrong with the horses?

Their long faces.

[clibinarium]

In the same way that people modded massive elephants and such in Med II and Rome, can the size of the horses be tweaked slightly to make them the correct size? If it were just one parameter it might be an easy fix. On the other hand maybe its one of those things that's really hard to get at in the post-Empire games.

[Blom89]

They look better after the Directx patch. Before the patch they were bronze statues, now they have some texture.

[empr guy]

the horse on the left in comparison to the soldiers on the right (both in the forground) is like twice as tall, if the people are only 5 feet tall, thats a 10 foot tall horse. Where the are thery getting 10 foot horses from?

[Googoo24]

They said they made horses big for gameplay/aesthetic reasons. They figured the tiny horses wouldn't be too exciting.

Hell, Japanese cavalry didn't even charge for the most part.

Anyway, the horses aren't that big, IMHO.

[DeMolay]

Hell, Japanese cavalry didn't even charge for the most part.

Anyway, the horses aren't that big, IMHO.

Hojo Ujiyasu and Ujiteru who lost a memorable battle at Mimasetoge in 1569 would disagree with you , as the whole engagement was decided by a fierce cavalry charge of the famous red horsemen of Yamagata Masakage

It's true though that not many battles during Sengoku jidai were decided by cavalry , however it still remained a elite corps inside an army and was extremey valuable during a battle , it is during this period that occured the transition between the traditional mounted archer samurai to the mounted spearman samurai

Concerning the charge itself , you are right to say Japanese cavalry as opposed to European heavy cavalry did not specialize in compact group charges , they would charge in a more disordely manneer with far less power on impact (also Japanese used the most nervous and impetuous horses for battle with sometimes unpredictable behaviour , whereas Europeans used docile horses for battle , so it was easier to keep them in formation in the heat of the charge ) , but the difference is that Japanese warhorses were probably faster (and tired slower ) on average because they didn't have all the heavy armour on it and were use differently by harrassing the rear and flanks and covering much larger distances during the battle


I agree with you i don't find the horse too big in the game , but ok if they can make them more realistic , i'm all for it

[Googoo24]

Hojo Ujiyasu and Ujiteru who lost a memorable battle at Mimasetoge in 1569 would disagree with you , as the whole engagement was decided by a fierce cavalry charge of the famous red horsemen of Yamagata Masakage

Of course, Masakage (not Ujiteru) was a Takeda general. Takeda is credited by some historians as being the creator of the Japanese equivalent of the cavalry charge.