petition No more DLC

[BullGod]

A chainsaw isn't art, neither is a loaf of bread or a car, (car maybe debatable) computer games are an art form, or at least they used to be.

Whoa, an art form???
They can be, no doubt, but in most cases they are not.
Games are simple entertainment. Art is much more.

[Humble Warrior]

Whoa, an art form???
They can be, no doubt, but in most cases they are not.
Games are simple entertainment. Art is much more.

Actually, I thought GTA IV was the closest thing to an artform I`ve ever seen in a game. I`ll explain more if you wish.

And I`m an artist.

However, TW series is not an artform at all. Nope, sorry. It`s just a cash cow. Maybe in time when their attitudes change.

[BullGod]

Actually, I thought GTA IV was the closest thing to an artform I`ve ever seen in a game. I`ll explain more if you wish.

And I`m an artist.

Please, elaborate.
(Although I'm afraid we're getting awfully offtopic)

[Ashwind]

Game companies are approaching this the wrong way. They should go all out to support modding.

Provide a platform for modders to sell their work. They take a small cut from it. In terms of business, that's the way to go. Of course, that will in time kill off modding for 'free'.

Just look at the AppStore. That's a successful business model. Not all this cloak and dagger stuff.

[Humble Warrior]

I`ll be brief:

1. GTA IV has such amazing depth.

2. But the real reason is because it`s like a small synopsis on Mankind. If you listen to the radio stations, the TV, watch the people on the streets from the preachers, to the drunks, to the fat policemen, the whole thing is a sort of dark parody and how people hide the truth from themselves while being taken for a ride by others. It jokes while it does it, but it`s actually showing up the dark underbelly of Humans in a very true and even rich way.

It`s almost a study of the truth of Human Beings.

[M2TWRocks]

game companies must have some idea before making the vanilla version which area's of the game can easily have dlc attached to them, and the most obvious area's are features that do not change gameplay such as factions, no one makes a game knowing they are going to sell dlc without at least having a vague idea of what shape that content is going to take, my point still stands i think, games are being made with dlc in mind, and that is an unneeded distraction in the process of game design that could possibly affect the quality of the final product, and take development time away from more interesting features.

That may be true, but it may not. It's all speculation. RTW didn't have DLC, and it sucked on release. Matter of fact, I'd say NTW and S2TW are the best TW games to date on release. So in this particular instance, it appears the exact opposite is true. Although correlation does not equal causation.

[M2TWRocks]

I`ll be brief:

1. GTA IV has such amazing depth.

2. But the real reason is because it`s like a small synopsis on Mankind. If you listen to the radio stations, the TV, watch the people on the streets from the preachers, to the drunks, to the fat policemen, the whole thing is a sort of dark parody and how people hide the truth from themselves while being taken for a ride by others. It jokes while it does it, but it`s actually showing up the dark underbelly of Humans in a very true and even rich way.

It`s almost a study of the truth of Human Beings.

Lol.

[Bolkonsky]

Normally this would be insulting, but seeing as how I used the politically correct terminology and failed to single a specific poster out, I'm bulletproof.

Let me make this quite clear, so there's no confusion on the issue. No one is bulletproof. If you're being disruptive, even though no one specifically is insulted, you can still find yourself on the wrong end of a ban.

That being said...The discussion for the last few pages is kind of nutty. Let's act a bit more maturely, OK? If you want to discuss this issue with each other, that's fine. When you start yelling at each other, that's when the threads get closed.

[Kinjo]

This entire thread is nutty

[BullGod]

I`ll be brief:

1. GTA IV has such amazing depth.

2. But the real reason is because it`s like a small synopsis on Mankind. If you listen to the radio stations, the TV, watch the people on the streets from the preachers, to the drunks, to the fat policemen, the whole thing is a sort of dark parody and how people hide the truth from themselves while being taken for a ride by others. It jokes while it does it, but it`s actually showing up the dark underbelly of Humans in a very true and even rich way.

It`s almost a study of the truth of Human Beings.

I think it's great that GTA made you think, that you found great depth in it etc., but I don't think it makes it art.
It has parody elements alright, and because Art is a subjective interpretation of an artist point of view, it is similiar in that aspect. But I don't think that's enough to make it art.
Maybe it's because the main purpose of a game is to entertain through rules and objectives, that I find it hard to accept it as an art form.
Let's put it that way: if you take all those things you mentioned from GTA, and throw it away, you will still have a game. You might not like it that much, but it will work as a game. Art doesn't need anything else than itself to be what it is. Game might have artistic elements, like graphics, music, even story, but those are additions to the game. Game itself is generally not an art.

Let me say also, that It's really hard to define art, and we might spend a lot of time arguing about it, and never reach any satysfying conclusion. Defining game is easy.

[Lord Baal]

Just wait for a steam sale when the game becomes $5 for everything tops. Jeeze stop whinning why dont you go outside and live your life.

First I'm not complaining about the money, I will gladly pay for a product that it's worthy of it. But I fear that if the people start buying anything without value just because they are new shining models then the game developers wouldn't keep making new and better products, just new shining models because that sells as good (if not more) as a better game. Second, if you don't like my opinion and love so much the DLC then why do you enter a tread called petition No more DLC. What a way to go out and live your life pal...

lol the usage of steam is ethically wrong lol

lol FORCED, COERCED or other wise not using any other media (hence the ONLY in the original sentence that you gladly omit) as a mean to force people to go with the DLC is ethically wrong. Do you know the meaning of ethics dude? lol

such a joke surely your not serious

I am, are you?

Steam is epic keeps my game up to date for me keep a list of friends and constant sales so i never miss out and your complaining.

That's your experience and your opinion. I respect that (do you respect mine? Apparently not...). And if you could just read with more attention my signature, you will see that I'm not saying Steam = sucks, you are making that out of thin air.

And your complaining about excluding non internet users by using an internet forum, why dont u say this stuff in your local newspaper so u can talk to all the other pesants that dont have internet. lol And the disadvantagees are what exactly?

So I'm a peasant now, eh kid? And calling someone peasant its pejorative now? It's the country work a shameful condition now, they dont' deserve respect? And people in the farms couldn't have Internet access too, they can only read the papers?
And by the way it's peasants, not pesants, but whatever, I'm sure a PHD like you does know how to use a spell checker.
Well sir, a pesant like me comes to this magic box of wisdom to put toughs on place where other pesants like me that have played this game and, having something in common with me may agree or disagree with me. It's a forum you know, as long we abide the rules we should be able to say whatever opinion we have. The local news on the other hand will not reach as many interested people as this.

As the disadvantages, it's pretty obvious, one is that pesants like me don't have the best access to internet. So I very much appreciate don't have to wait 18 or 36 hours to install a game while I can't do very much nothing else since my bandwidth if fully used. Also, thought hacking or other wise being locked out of your steam account it's very unlikely it's a possibility. I wanna see some one trying to hack the disc I have in my room locked under key.

If I was running CA I would release the game with only Chos unlocked and no campaign game. you pay full price $100 and to unlock the other factions is $20 and to unlock multi is $25 and to unlock single player is also $25. Deal with it.

Oh now I see you are a Economics PHD. Sorry a pesant like me ever dare to express it's opinion!!
Now I will like to see you ruining, eh.. I mean, running CA, or for that matter, Sega, since it's Sega who make the money decisions, but you know that already, being such a educated boy don't you?

That's all, now I'm going back to attend my fields, they won't harvest themselves..

[last_name_left]

LOL. Is no one even marginally insulted by this quip?

Yes, I was. However, having recently been censored here for rebutting a scurrilous attack on feminism, I thought it better not to comment.

[Remo]

Yes, I was. However, having recently been censored here for rebutting a scurrilous attack on feminism, I thought it better not to comment.

I do apologize if anyone found it offense, I take it back and by that I mean it was deleted.

We cool brosky?

[Humble Warrior]

I think it's great that GTA made you think, that you found great depth in it etc., but I don't think it makes it art.
It has parody elements alright, and because Art is a subjective interpretation of an artist point of view, it is similiar in that aspect. But I don't think that's enough to make it art.
Maybe it's because the main purpose of a game is to entertain through rules and objectives, that I find it hard to accept it as an art form.
Let's put it that way: if you take all those things you mentioned from GTA, and throw it away, you will still have a game. You might not like it that much, but it will work as a game. Art doesn't need anything else than itself to be what it is. Game might have artistic elements, like graphics, music, even story, but those are additions to the game. Game itself is generally not an art.

I did say the closest thing to Art in a game. There`s a difference.

Let me say also, that It's really hard to define art, and we might spend a lot of time arguing about it, and never reach any satysfying conclusion. Defining game is easy.

Indeed. I have had discussions (arguments) on real art that no one in my circles have ever come to a full agreement on and I`m not talking about kids either. Art is HIGHLY subjective, as you know, one person`s art is not another`s. To be honest I wouldn`t normally even mention the subject of Art here since it would fly past most people as in the case of MTWRocks `lol` which is a fine example of this.

[Humble Warrior]

Yes, I was. However, having recently been censored here for rebutting a scurrilous attack on feminism, I thought it better not to comment.

And your attempts to shut me up were scurrilous to the extreme. Fair and objective? I think not. Most people I know APPRECIATE divergent points of view, unlike you.

[Humble Warrior]

Humble old chap.. have you seen this which was stickied a few weeks ago.. specifically the questions about console games?
TWC Fact Finding Poll

Um. No. I tend not to wander about these forums much. I shall take a gander. Cheers.

[Anibal at portas]

more DCL,but all free.
CA is from england and the english have a reputation for being very stingy.
CA it is time to change this reputation and start to give DCL away to loyal clients.

[Kinjo]

more DCL,but all free.
CA is from england and the english have a reputation for being very stingy.
CA it is time to change this reputation and start to give DCL away to loyal clients.

Nothings free and stop acting like your owed something. You either buy or you don't its that simple and this thread is completely pointless.

[emperor77]

Nothings free and stop acting like your owed something. You either buy or you don't its that simple and this thread is completely pointless.

They owe me the Napoleon total war uniform editor substitute.

[TotalWarker]

I think this thread should be re-named 'No more profit for companies'

Cause essentially what they've done is create a product, which they can sell for whatever they want. Its up to you if you want to buy it.

Also, if you look about many games are now £35 - £40. I got my copy of S2 for £30, so a £3 DLC still makes it cheap