How do we know that Brutus and Caesar were good friends?

**Aenima** · May 09, 2011, 02:21 PM

Is there any evidence to suggest that Brutus was truly as close to Caesar as is commonly believed? I'm trying to find actual proof that the two men were close friends, but Brutus doesn't come across as having been as close a friend as we see in plays and such (ie Shakespeare's play, HBO's Rome)

Is this close relationship something that was 'invented' to make the betrayal more dramatic, or were they genuinely good friends, and if so how do we know?

**Agent007** · May 09, 2011, 03:41 PM

Well, simply said, maybe they weren't as close as it was shown centuries later.
It is somewhat known that Shakespeare took some "dramatic liberties" in his historical-based plays; and in fact, the Marcus Junius Brutus-Julius Caesar relationship from HBO's «Rome» (albeit being a TV series that I personally love) is depicted as almost a father-son one, maybe relying a bit on the sources that refer to the possibility of Caesar being his real father.

One must not forget that Brutus followed Pompey when the civil war broke out, and it was Caesar that ordered to spare him in the battle of Pharsalus - later, Brutus officially apologized to Caesar, and was immediately pardoned. During the early years, contact with Julius Caesar seems to have been scarce: Brutus was adopted by his uncle Quintus Servilius Caepio, using the name Quintus Servilius Caepio Brutus for a time (he later used it again after the assassination of Caesar), and went to Cyprus as an assistant to Cato the Younger (half-brother of his mother), while Cato was governor of the island.

I think that Caesar's friendship towards him was clearly related to the fact that Brutus' mother, Servilia Caepionis, was Caesar's lover, nothing more (or almost nothing more). I doubt that Brutus' feelings towards Caesar were the same - thus, the famous exclamation "Et tu, Brute?", representing the surprise and the pain of the betrayal. But, like I said, for me it was, for the greater part, a one-way friendship, not that warm relationship which is depicted sometimes.

For sources, maybe check out Plutarch, Life of Brutus; the Roman History of Cassius Dio; Suetonius, The Deified Julius; or The Civil Wars by Appian.

**Spike** · May 13, 2011, 01:25 PM

well, If his real father are caesar, I wonder why Caesar doesn't merely inform Brutus from the start? that way, he can at least negate one rival (because since Brutus is the first son of Caesar, he'll inherit the empire, eventually.... ) well, unless that brutus is more stupid than this brutus

**Agent007** · September 21, 2011, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Strategos Lykos

well, If his real father are caesar, I wonder why Caesar doesn't merely inform Brutus from the start? that way, he can at least negate one rival (because since Brutus is the first son of Caesar, he'll inherit the empire, eventually.... ) well, unless that brutus is more stupid than this brutus

Just digging up this thread a little bit (I don't check the forums as often as I would like), to clear something for Strategos Lykos: I personally don't believe that Caesar was Brutus' father; there are only some sources giving a hint to that direction. And a hint, nothing more. Like I said, I think Caesar's great friendship towards him was due to the fact that Caesar and Brutus' mother were lovers.

But, most of all, I'd like to say, concerning the "Brutus would inherit the empire" thing, your reasoning may be correct, but there's only one thing you must not forget: there wasn't any "empire" yet during Caesar's life, Rome was still the Republic it had been, and so there wasn't the succession/ inheritance ways that we later see in the Principate (that is, the Roman Empire). Don't forget that the empire, and the ultimate rise of just one man to the supreme power, were only definetely established by Octavian (Augustus).

**Rex Germanius** · October 18, 2011, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Agent007

Just digging up this thread a little bit (I don't check the forums as often as I would like), to clear something for Strategos Lykos: I personally don't believe that Caesar was Brutus' father; there are only some sources giving a hint to that direction. And a hint, nothing more. Like I said, I think Caesar's great friendship towards him was due to the fact that Caesar and Brutus' mother were lovers.

But, most of all, I'd like to say, concerning the "Brutus would inherit the empire" thing, your reasoning may be correct, but there's only one thing you must not forget: there wasn't any "empire" yet during Caesar's life, Rome was still the Republic it had been, and so there wasn't the succession/ inheritance ways that we later see in the Principate (that is, the Roman Empire). Don't forget that the empire, and the ultimate rise of just one man to the supreme power, were only definetely established by Octavian (Augustus).

Would Brutus even had accepted such a proposition? Did he not oppose Caesar based on deep-rooted Republican principles? Or was he merely protecting the interests of his class?

**the persian Immortal** · September 24, 2011, 10:46 AM

speaking about ceaser I had a quik question , do charecters like julius , hannibal , surena , general agrippa . accure in EB ?

I mean do they ever show up in the campaign ? I don't think that surena will show up since he was a general and not a FM, correct me if I'm wrong

**Anubis88** · September 25, 2011, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by the persian Immortal

speaking about ceaser I had a quik question , do charecters like julius , hannibal , surena , general agrippa . accure in EB ?

I mean do they ever show up in the campaign ? I don't think that surena will show up since he was a general and not a FM, correct me if I'm wrong

They will appear in EBNOM tough

**the persian Immortal** · September 26, 2011, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by Anubis88

They will appear in EBNOM tough

............ emmm what's that ?

**Anubis88** · September 26, 2011, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by the persian Immortal

............ emmm what's that ?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=368115
Europa Barbarorum : Novus Ordo Mundi
A late campaign mod that starts in 80 BC that we are developing

**Spike** · September 29, 2011, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Anubis88

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=368115
Europa Barbarorum : Novus Ordo Mundi
A late campaign mod that starts in 80 BC that we are developing

some of them may start as kids, actually, and who knows what trait they'll got when they turned 16?

**Entropy Judge** · September 24, 2011, 01:25 PM

No. Only those who were alive at the beginning will appear, as there is a very small chance that the conditions for a particular individual's rise (or birth, for that matter) will actually occur.

**Blatta Optima Maxima** · September 25, 2011, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by Aenima

Is there any evidence to suggest that Brutus was truly as close to Caesar as is commonly believed?

From watching HBO's Rome.

**Julius Barca the Great** · September 25, 2011, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Cocroach the great

From watching HBO's Rome.

Or by reading Conn Iggulden's "Emperor" series.

**Metaluis90** · October 18, 2011, 12:05 AM

I do believe they had a relationship (altough, not THAT close), like had been said, a father-son relationship, due the fact that Ceaser felt like he was Brutus' tutor, teaching many things to him. Moreover, when the first civil war begun, Brutus told Caesar that he would follow his ideals to the end, and Caesar, altough sad, he realised that he wasn't fighting (as others, like Pompeius) for power, but for the very survival of the Republic, something that Caesar admired about him.
As beign said, Caesar pardoned his life, and even when (later, against Octavius and Antonius) he lost and then took his life, Antonius, respecting the fondness Caesar felt for Brutus, ordered to recover his body and give him the right funeral rituals, and claiming he was the "noblest among the Romans"