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Thread: Asia Ton Barbaron - ΑΣΙΑ ΤΩΝ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΩΝ

  1. #141
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Very interesting system !
    First remark : Will we be able to change our province policy in another way than destroying it. I mean, what could possibly forbid to have an "Autonomous Province" or "Client State" and initiate a change to make this province a fully part of the country as a "Colony" or a "Direct Province" ? Maybe should we only back on Tier II if we decide to make this kind of shift, beceause Tier I is only meant to install our presence in the first times of occupation. Anyway if we can't do that for some gameplay reasons I will completely understand, this system is already very well done and it should work very well in game.

    Second remark : It's about the effect of the "Colony" policy. I think you should add +1 Exp troop bonus to this policy for the Greek states. Baktria, Seleucids and even Egypt have installed military colonies in their country to hellenize (i don't know if this word exists ) it, with more or less efficiency. The bonus would represent well this historical reality.

    Third remark : Why didn't you add Greece in this mod (well, there is only Thrace but Thracians are only barbarians )?

  2. #142
    medievaldude's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Philoxenos View Post
    Third remark : Why didn't you add Greece in this mod (well, there is only Thrace but Thracians are only barbarians )?
    Only because this is barbarian Asia

    Ductus Exemplo
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    Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons. And they will follow you into the deepest valley.

  3. #143

    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Very nice!

  4. #144
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by medievaldude View Post
    Only because this is barbarian Asia
    Which makes Greece even more important to bring to Asia the lights and wonders of civilization !

  5. #145
    jirisys's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Philoxenos View Post
    Very interesting system !
    First remark : Will we be able to change our province policy in another way than destroying it. I mean, what could possibly forbid to have an "Autonomous Province" or "Client State" and initiate a change to make this province a fully part of the country as a "Colony" or a "Direct Province" ? Maybe should we only back on Tier II if we decide to make this kind of shift, beceause Tier I is only meant to install our presence in the first times of occupation. Anyway if we can't do that for some gameplay reasons I will completely understand, this system is already very well done and it should work very well in game.

    Second remark : It's about the effect of the "Colony" policy. I think you should add +1 Exp troop bonus to this policy for the Greek states. Baktria, Seleucids and even Egypt have installed military colonies in their country to hellenize (i don't know if this word exists ) it, with more or less efficiency. The bonus would represent well this historical reality.

    Third remark : Why didn't you add Greece in this mod (well, there is only Thrace but Thracians are only barbarians )?
    Well, I thought of implementing an advisor script that would pop up and let you roll back and let you change policies even with a method used first (as each tier would be a separate building tree), it would re-do from the last tier up, per each time you click the "Show Me" button, damage the buildings, make a counter in order to let you build all of them even without the proper method.

    Yes yes, these are basic effects, we will of course alter them when needed

    If we add greece, people will ask for macedonia, then epirus, the the getai, then cyrene. It's easier for us to save those faction slots to give them to an eastern faction. Besides, you will have pergamon.

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  6. #146
    medievaldude's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Philoxenos View Post
    Which makes Greece even more important to bring to Asia the lights and wonders of civilization !
    So the Seleucids cant lighten the world? they are pretty greek too me

    Ductus Exemplo
    Fas est et ab hoste doceri !
    He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious.
    Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons. And they will follow you into the deepest valley.

  7. #147
    jirisys's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by medievaldude View Post
    So the Seleucids cant lighten the world? they are pretty greek too me
    Nice 150th thread post there for me

    I think the pergameans are more hellenic.

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  8. #148
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by medievaldude View Post
    So the Seleucids cant lighten the world? they are pretty greek too me
    Seleucids are the scum of Greek civilization, refusing the dream of Alexander ! Only Bactria is really greek in Asia Plus Asia minor of course.


    If we add greece, people will ask for macedonia, then epirus, the the getai, then cyrene. It's easier for us to save those faction slots to give them to an eastern faction. Besides, you will have pergamon.
    Just Macedonia and European Greek cities (except Italian Greek cities ofc) would be sufficient. Maybe one day there will be a sub-mod for this.

    Anyway great work for the moment. It's a very interesting policy system, more complex and complete than EB's and surely EB2's. The units's models from the preview are very detailed and beautiful (obviously, all greek soldiers are beautiful ), a shame that the animations are so poor in M2TW, doesn't worth your work :/

    About the banners, will they be able to change through time ou will they be always the same ?

    For instance let's imagine that i prepare an invasion of the Indu Kush then the valley of Indus with Bactria and i'm very very successuful beceause i'm a very very brillant general (which is a non-discutable fact). I don't sack any cities, release all prisonners; well, I'm a true angel in a world of blood and steel. Then invaded people would tend more to be peaceful and even encourage my occupation, welcoming me like a liberator. So even if it's a totally different culture group, the "Amicable populace" would be an appropriate banner than "Expansion Region" or "Counter Expansion"; and maybe, after a long time of peaceful and efficient integration, this would be a par of my "Homeland". Conversely, if I don't keep enough order rate or other things, the banner would decrease by itself.
    Is that kind of thing possible ? Or maybe the banner could be generated at each change of province's owner following some factors like Dread/Chivalery of the general, his traits or courtesans, his faith,....

  9. #149
    jirisys's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Philoxenos View Post
    About the banners, will they be able to change through time ou will they be always the same ?

    For instance let's imagine that i prepare an invasion of the Indu Kush then the valley of Indus with Bactria and i'm very very successuful beceause i'm a very very brillant general (which is a non-discutable fact). I don't sack any cities, release all prisonners; well, I'm a true angel in a world of blood and steel. Then invaded people would tend more to be peaceful and even encourage my occupation, welcoming me like a liberator. So even if it's a totally different culture group, the "Amicable populace" would be an appropriate banner than "Expansion Region" or "Counter Expansion"; and maybe, after a long time of peaceful and efficient integration, this would be a par of my "Homeland". Conversely, if I don't keep enough order rate or other things, the banner would decrease by itself.
    Is that kind of thing possible ? Or maybe the banner could be generated at each change of province's owner following some factors like Dread/Chivalery of the general, his traits or courtesans, his faith,....
    I was thinking about that, but that would mean that you would have 4 banners, accumulating their effects, since you can't demolish a building on a single city, and banners would be unremovable.

    However the effects are alterable and I can easily create a counter in order for an effect to happen.

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  10. #150

    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Cool concept and cool mod

    Just one question about this nice complex annexation system:

    Will there be maby local titles for generals linked to the different government buildings? E.g. you could give as Seleucids the title "Satrap of ..." when you build in a province "Autonomous Province". It would be especially cool when you use the advisor to give such titles, like made in the HRR-mod. You could use titles for all, or for at least the final, government buildings, with different effects on moral, loyality, administration, ... .

    A complex title system would be a good add-on for this good government building system.

    PS: general questions (I hope they haven't been answered already)

    - Will you add navigable rivers in this mod?
    - Will you add permanent fort as minor cities?
    - Will you use crusaders/djihads?
    - How will you use religion? Maby language or cuture?
    - Will there be civil wars or rebel factions (like the roman rebels in RTW-BI)?
    - How will you use the castle/city feature?
    Last edited by Isildor; August 10, 2011 at 03:41 PM.

  11. #151
    jirisys's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Isildor View Post
    Will there be maby local titles for generals linked to the different government buildings? E.g. you could give as Seleucids the title "Satrap of ..." when you build in a province "Autonomous Province". It would be especially cool when you use the advisor to give such titles, like made in the HRR-mod. You could use titles for all, or for at least the final, government buildings, with different effects on moral, loyality, administration, ... .
    Traits. A trait "Governor of" will appear in most cultures/factions. Ancillaries will be used for elected officials (unmovable, but dissapears each certain time) or high charges (Polemarchos, Dioiketes, etc...).

    A complex title system would be a good add-on for this good government building system.
    Of course, each faction will have a different description and title for these buildings.

    PS: general questions (I hope they haven't been answered already)

    - Will you add navigable rivers in this mod?
    The nile "springs" to mind. Get it? Springs. Haha, I'm such an idiot.

    - Will you add permanent fort as minor cities?


    Damn you, you are clever sir, but that is confidential. I will mention that we had these ideas first.

    - Will you use crusaders/djihads?
    Possibly not, it could work for a persian invasion mod, but not here, unison was hardly the thing one saw.

    - How will you use religion? Maby language or cuture?
    Most likely culture.

    - Will there be civil wars or rebel factions (like the roman rebels in RTW-BI)?
    Seriously now, have you hacked our forums? This is too coincidental

    - How will you use the castle/city feature?
    I'd imagine like EB, nomadic camps.

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  12. #152
    medievaldude's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Philoxenos View Post
    Seleucids are the scum of Greek civilization, refusing the dream of Alexander ! Only Bactria is really greek in Asia Plus Asia minor of course.
    Really? they incorporated a good part of Alexanders Persian and Hellene coexistence

    Ductus Exemplo
    Fas est et ab hoste doceri !
    He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious.
    Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons. And they will follow you into the deepest valley.

  13. #153
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Any chance that we have Bakria in the next faction preview ?

  14. #154
    jirisys's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Philoxenos View Post
    Any chance that we have Bakria in the next faction preview ?
    If you give us all the units, yes.



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  15. #155

    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Of course, each faction will have a different description and title for these buildings.
    Wonderful

    The nile "springs" to mind. Get it? Springs. Haha, I'm such an idiot.
    and what's about Euphrat, Tigris, Indus and Ganges

    Most likely culture.
    Don't you think that language would be a good idea? By this you could depict the spread of greek language over the east and the native languages still spoken in the areas of the former persian empire.

    Seriously now, have you hacked our forums? This is too coincidental


    I'd imagine like EB, nomadic camps.
    Cool

    BTW:

    - What do you think of using the advisor to allocate very important unique titles?

    - Maby the authority of the kings (especially in the Seleucid and Ptolemaic empire) could have a central role. Autority could have an effect on the loyality generals and for the tax income. What do you think about this idea?

    - Maby you could add a script depicting the acclamation by the army in diadochi empires. E.g. if the authority or other values of a new leader are low the acclamation by the army could be refused which leads to a civil war.

    - The viceroy often governed their region from Seleuceia, maby there could be a script forcing them to move to Seleuceia to get their title or one which reduce their loyalty if the aren't in Seleuceia.

    - Maby you could also add a trait showing the favour of the king (e.g. low, middle, high favour) having effect on changes of gaining a title

    Maby this is a bit much but I love such role playing feudal elements and the diadochi empire seem a perfect candidate for such a system
    Last edited by Isildor; August 11, 2011 at 10:11 AM.

  16. #156
    jirisys's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    and what's about Euphrat, Tigris, Indus and Ganges
    I don't know.

    Don't you think that language would be a good idea? By this you could depict the spread of greek language over the east and the native languages still spoken in the areas of the former persian empire.
    Language was already spread in 247 BCE.

    - What do you think of using the advisor to allocate very important unique titles?
    Doubt it, most likely triggers.

    - Maby the authority of the kings (especially in the Seleucid and Ptolemaic empire) could have a central role. Autority could have an effect on the loyality generals and for the tax income. What do you think about this idea?
    Do we have an authority attribute?

    - Maby you could add a script depicting the acclamation by the army in diadochi empires. E.g. if the authority or other values of a new leader are low the acclamation by the army could be refused which leads to a civil war.
    That would be to governors, not armies. And simple loyalty traits will do.

    - The viceroy often governed their region from Seleuceia, maby there could be a script forcing them to move to Seleuceia to get their title or one which reduce their loyalty if the aren't in Seleuceia.
    No, 0 movement points is easier, just like any governor.

    - Maby you could also add a trait showing the favour of the king (e.g. low, middle, high favour) having effect on changes of gaining a title
    Yes.

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  17. #157

    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Do we have an authority attribute?
    Faction leaders have it (instead of loyality). E.g. in the HRR-mod high authority makes a reelection more probable. In this mod a high authority could have effect on scripted events like civil wars and rebellions.

  18. #158
    medievaldude's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Isildor View Post
    Faction leaders have it (instead of loyality). E.g. in the HRR-mod high authority makes a reelection more probable. In this mod a high authority could have effect on scripted events like civil wars and rebellions.
    Molon's Rebellion

    Ductus Exemplo
    Fas est et ab hoste doceri !
    He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious.
    Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons. And they will follow you into the deepest valley.

  19. #159
    jirisys's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Quote Originally Posted by medievaldude View Post
    Molon
    Labe.

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  20. #160
    beos777's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Ασια των βαρβαρων - Asia Ton Barbaron

    Asia twn barbarwn is recruiting.We want persons that will work...Especially persons that have some knowledge in 3d art..Also skinners and scripters....if u want to join our team, feel free to pm me,jrisys or Alkimachos.....



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