Symbolism of Lord Shiva

[m_1512]

In Hinduism, the logic behind polytheism is that to provide a role model to people through various epics. Here, I will take up a small example, The symbolism of Lord Shiva, or more-over what He represents.

I will start the actual in the next post to satisfy my finicky need for neatness.

Good, Constructive and Non-Heated posts are encouraged.

[m_1512]

The Trident

Though depicted in dark light in many other cultures, the trident is actually is the symbol of all what we have achieved today. It represents Knowledge which can be called most valuable treasure a person can have. Desire, the driving force which provides motivation for your action. You can only do something properly when you desire it to be done. Without Implementation, Knowledge and Desire will just remain as mere theories. Implementation is how your idea transforms into reality.


The Serpent

In eastern cultures, the serpent is said to possess ego. This can be proved by the fact that a serpent strikes if you step on it or disturb it. An ego is a dangerous thing which can destroy a person, unless controlled. An egotistic person makes legions of enemies spring from the ground to destroy him.

Lord Shiva represents the Mastery over one's ego. Once a person masters his ego, The same ego becomes his ornament. In simple words, such is person is always welcome and liked by everyone.


Rudraksha & Rosary

Rudraksha is obtained from evergreen broad-leaved tree. its seeds are used for religious purposes as it seeds are said to purify the mind of the wearer. A pure mind is always free from evil and sin.

Rosary beads are used universally by most cultures including Christians. It denotes concentration and even claimed by many yoga experts that chanting with rosary improves concentration.

[Border Patrol]

Hinduism is monotheistic, just like Christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman

[Thanatos]

Hinduism is monotheistic, just like Christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman

Your statement implies that Hindus treat their beliefs in the way that Christians do. Not only is that a pretty incorrect statement in and of itself, but which Christians? Catholic? Protestants (of which there are many sects)?

[Atterdag]

Interesting, I've always wondered what exactly that moon was supposed to mean.

Anyways, Vishnu is the greatest simply because his avatars include the most inspiring heroes of Hindu mythology - Rama and Krishna.

[Copperknickers II]

Hinduism is monotheistic, just like Christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman

Monotheistic like Christianity, where there are idols and sometimes whole churches dedicated to the Virgin Mary, where you worship a father and son team of deities, and God exists as a trinity? Maybe inside Christianity you think you worship a single god, but from an outside perspective you are even less Monotheistic than Hinduism.

Shiva is certainly my favourite deity, because along with the fact that he is awesome, he also has his sons Ganesh (Elephant headed god of good luck, amongst other things) and Karthikeya (god of war), his daughters Lakshmi (goddess of wealth) and Saraswati (goddess of wisdom) and his wife Parvati, avatara Durga (slayer of demons) and Kali (goddess of feminine rage and time).

[basics]

M_1512,

There is nothing to get heated about as this deity is another offshoot from Ninus or Nimrod's own deification which was the original apostasy.

[Col. Tartleton]

M_1512,

There is nothing to get heated about as this deity is another offshoot from Ninus or Nimrod's own deification which was the original apostasy.

No, if we're going to translate this in Christianity, Shiva is the Hindu version of the Archangel Michael, he's the destroyer. The Hindus believe in a single God made up of a Trinity of Gods, and countless lesser beings scattered through numerous dimensions of existence of which this universe is just one.

Shiva tramples ignorance the way Michael tramples upon Satan. He says "Who is like God?" No one. Satan represents ignorance and how it tests mankind.

Hinduism is about as large as Islam, and older than Judaism. There's no apostasy.

[hellas1]

Hi all,

A couple of things here:

First, "Hinduism" is an umbrella term and really shouldn't be used anymore!

Traditionally, there 6 schools of thought in indian philosophy. They are called Astika or "adhereing to scriptures" per se, along with the 2 main Nastika schools are Jainism and Buddhism which deny Vedic knowledge/transmission.

Second,
Different schools of thought believe in a Monotheistic God or an "All pervading consciousness" called Brahman which is an aspect of ParaBrahman. It gets complicated to express the lines of thought.

Essentially you have Advaita, Dvaita, Vashistavaita:
Advaita means the individual spirit and Brahman are one
Dvaita means Brahman and the individual spirits are one essense, per se, but separate
Vashistavaita means that only Brahman exists in a multiplicity of forms

Third,
When people read Shaivite (meaning worshippers of Shiva) Tantric works, there is always an "esoteric" meaning hidden, meaning, not magickal (AKA Aleister Crowley & Golden Dawn junk) nor new age propaganda, that can be culled from these Tantric works anyway. I don't know about the rest.

Lastly,
I being a Christian believe that ALL people at one point in time, did believe in 1 God or Monotheism and that a degeneration took place into Polytheism. After all, In India's case ParaBrahman is the highest reality without a second or another being in other words.

Advaita and Vashistavaita are Non-dual, Dvaita is dualistic even though God and many beings are posited.
In Biblical Christianity, there is only one God who can assume different forms...obviously and the Satan or Adversary is a fallen being of great power who is backed up by an angelic horde or fallen beings like himself.
Jesus Christ conquered Satan & the demonic realm on the Cross and provides a way of Non-dualism to people: God , being a spirit, living inside YOU because you are a spirit also and that you can realize that God and you are one with God because God will live inside you and become one spirit with you by accepting Jesus.

PM me for more discussion!
hellas1.5

[Plant]

I being a Christian believe that ALL people at one point in time, did believe in 1 God or Monotheism and that a degeneration took place into Polytheism. After all, In India's case ParaBrahman is the highest reality without a second or another being in other words.

Why do you beleive such a thing? What hapens when you go far back eneough at whatever date in time you wish to consider, that would give credence to such a thing?

Jesus Christ conquered Satan & the demonic realm on the Cross and provides a way of Non-dualism to people: God , being a spirit, living inside YOU because you are a spirit also and that you can realize that God and you are one with God because God will live inside you and become one spirit with you by accepting Jesus.

That sounds an awful lot like Gnosticism. You should go read up on it. It might suprise and interest you spiritually to know the origins, rise and decline of Gnosticism as well.

[Thanatos]

M_1512,

There is nothing to get heated about as this deity is another offshoot from Ninus or Nimrod's own deification which was the original apostasy.

That's pretty arrogant of an attitude to take.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

This thread is an island of glory in overwhelming darkness. I approve it, especially hellas' comments.

[m_1512]

Interesting, I've always wondered what exactly that moon was supposed to mean.

Anyways, Vishnu is the greatest simply because his avatars include the most inspiring heroes of Hindu mythology - Rama and Krishna.

Depends from people to people. Although, it is said in a purana/veda that the world created by Shiva.

M_1512,

There is nothing to get heated about as this deity is another offshoot from Ninus or Nimrod's own deification which was the original apostasy.

No, if we're going to translate this in Christianity, Shiva is the Hindu version of the Archangel Michael, he's the destroyer. The Hindus believe in a single God made up of a Trinity of Gods, and countless lesser beings scattered through numerous dimensions of existence of which this universe is just one.

Shiva tramples ignorance the way Michael tramples upon Satan. He says "Who is like God?" No one. Satan represents ignorance and how it tests mankind.

Hinduism is about as large as Islam, and older than Judaism. There's no apostasy.

Agree with Tartleton.

Hi all,

A couple of things here:

First, "Hinduism" is an umbrella term and really shouldn't be used anymore!

Traditionally, there 6 schools of thought in indian philosophy. They are called Astika or "adhereing to scriptures" per se, along with the 2 main Nastika schools are Jainism and Buddhism which deny Vedic knowledge/transmission.

Second,
Different schools of thought believe in a Monotheistic God or an "All pervading consciousness" called Brahman which is an aspect of ParaBrahman. It gets complicated to express the lines of thought.

Essentially you have Advaita, Dvaita, Vashistavaita:
Advaita means the individual spirit and Brahman are one
Dvaita means Brahman and the individual spirits are one essense, per se, but separate
Vashistavaita means that only Brahman exists in a multiplicity of forms

Third,
When people read Shaivite (meaning worshippers of Shiva) Tantric works, there is always an "esoteric" meaning hidden, meaning, not magickal (AKA Aleister Crowley & Golden Dawn junk) nor new age propaganda, that can be culled from these Tantric works anyway. I don't know about the rest.

Lastly,
I being a Christian believe that ALL people at one point in time, did believe in 1 God or Monotheism and that a degeneration took place into Polytheism. After all, In India's case ParaBrahman is the highest reality without a second or another being in other words.

Advaita and Vashistavaita are Non-dual, Dvaita is dualistic even though God and many beings are posited.
In Biblical Christianity, there is only one God who can assume different forms...obviously and the Satan or Adversary is a fallen being of great power who is backed up by an angelic horde or fallen beings like himself.
Jesus Christ conquered Satan & the demonic realm on the Cross and provides a way of Non-dualism to people: God , being a spirit, living inside YOU because you are a spirit also and that you can realize that God and you are one with God because God will live inside you and become one spirit with you by accepting Jesus.

PM me for more discussion!
hellas1.5

I would say, Good Theological Research. I did read about this in net and some books. But its not so easy and simple to understand. And may not be practical to in-doctrine nowadays. I would be surprised if any ordinary person could understand it. Usually Hinduism is more of a 'way of life' than 'umbrella term'. The word also gives an identity to their faith, so I believe it can be used.

Monotheistic like Christianity, where there are idols and sometimes whole churches dedicated to the Virgin Mary, where you worship a father and son team of deities, and God exists as a trinity? Maybe inside Christianity you think you worship a single god, but from an outside perspective you are even less Monotheistic than Hinduism.

Shiva is certainly my favourite deity, because along with the fact that he is awesome, he also has his sons Ganesh (Elephant headed god of good luck, amongst other things) and Karthikeya (god of war), his daughters Lakshmi (goddess of wealth) and Saraswati (goddess of wisdom) and his wife Parvati, avatara Durga (slayer of demons) and Kali (goddess of feminine rage and time).

I agree. Among other things He teaches Monogamy, Family Values, Knowledge, Purity and Simple Life instead of Pomp and Show.


Now, I am pleased to see the healthy discussions going on. But to be honest, I had not thought of this as discussion thread. But you may continue to do so in good spirit. The reason I am constantly asking for non-heated debate is that a lot of such events are happening nowadays.

My sole reason of this posts was to share this information with the community.

P.S. If anyone has any Message or Questions or Answers for me, You would find faster response from me by PM.

With Regards...

[hellas1]

Hi all,

I just wanted to share a few things about myself with you:

1. I am a Christian: Jesus is God and I'm saved by grace through faith with works that show my heart in this matter.

2. I HAVE done comparative religious study for over 15+ years. I'm not a scholar however, but I do enjoy scholarly works.

3. I have been initiated into Dzogchen which is a Non-dual system of "meditation" in both the Nyingma & Bon Tibetan traditions. I am NOT a Buddhist nor am I a Bon practitioner nor am I a "Dzogchenist!" I've understood the state of Non-duality because I've experienced it.

The reason I got initiated into Dzogchen is because I want to get my Master's degree in Clinical or Cognitive Psychology and help the mentally ill, not to "become a Buddhist."

@ Plant
Quote:
"That sounds an awful lot like Gnosticism. You should go read up on it. It might surprise and interest you spiritually to know the origins, rise and decline of Gnosticism as well. "

No sir I am NOT a Gnostic. BTW, "Gnosis" in Greek simply means understanding/becoming (meaning at the same time, not in a time span from now to 10 minutes past now).
No, Everything I said is in the printed Word of God (See Romans & the Gospel of John in particular) and I'm not a "Hindu" either btw.


Jesus said "Father, I in you, You in me and them in us that the world would believe that you sent me.
Furthermore Paul in one of his letters says:"God's spirit becomes one with your spirit making you Sons of God."

Did you get that brother? God giving us his very nature...How? By the Holy Spirit becoming one with our spirit through faith by the graciousness of the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ & the Holy Spirit who loves us himself enough to tabernacle IN human beings! Wheeeew! Amen! Praise God! Thank you Jesus!

Happy hellas1.5........"You beloved are living letters read by all men, not with ink but with God's Spirit"

[Copperknickers II]

Did you know that Jesus almost certainly visited India during his 'lost years'? In fact, the idea of him being a son of God and yet for all intents and purposes One with Him is almost certainly a borrowing from the Hindu idea of avatara. As are numerous other ideas in Christianity, such as ahimsa (nonviolence) and indeed the very idea of such a person coming down from heaven to save people from their sins and tell them that the only way to achieve the ultimate goal of eternal life (described in similar terms to Moksha) is to live your life in a way which he will set forth, which is exactly what Krishna does in the Bhagavad Geeta.

[Border Patrol]

Your statement implies that Hindus treat their beliefs in the way that Christians do. Not only is that a pretty incorrect statement in and of itself, but which Christians? Catholic? Protestants (of which there are many sects)?

My statement implies nothing, the Hindu Trinity is well known, with Brahman being essentially the same entity as YHWH in Judeo-Christian mythology.
As to which Christians I was speaking of, well, all of them. Which Christian sect doesn't believe in one, true, all knowing, and all powerful god which decides your fate in the afterlife? The fact that Christians worship so many various saints and holy figures was the exact parallel I was trying to draw between Christianity and Hinduism.

"According to the tenets of Hinduism, God is one as well as many."

Monotheistic like Christianity, where there are idols and sometimes whole churches dedicated to the Virgin Mary, where you worship a father and son team of deities, and God exists as a trinity? Maybe inside Christianity you think you worship a single god, but from an outside perspective you are even less Monotheistic than Hinduism.

Shiva is certainly my favourite deity, because along with the fact that he is awesome, he also has his sons Ganesh (Elephant headed god of good luck, amongst other things) and Karthikeya (god of war), his daughters Lakshmi (goddess of wealth) and Saraswati (goddess of wisdom) and his wife Parvati, avatara Durga (slayer of demons) and Kali (goddess of feminine rage and time).

Why so hostile? You don't know what my beliefs are, to assume I'm Christian and then proceeding to attack me for that is a bit uncalled for. I was saying in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way that many holy figures doesn't necessarily mean polytheism.

[Copperknickers II]

Why so hostile? You don't know what my beliefs are, to assume I'm Christian and then proceeding to attack me for that is a bit uncalled for. I was saying in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way that many holy figures doesn't necessarily mean polytheism.

Hostile? I was just adding another element to the discussion on Hinduism; that from an outside perspective, Monotheism means the worship of a single deity, which is certainly not a good way of describing Christianity. Besides, you misunderstand the concept of the Brahman: it's not really a deity, its a universal spirit of existence. Sometimes it is personified as a form of Narayana, but even then there are other gods. It depends whether you define an avatar as a true deity, since within the Hindu system its just an aspect of a single or triple divine power rather than being a seperate entity like in pre-Christian Western Mythology. Again, from an outsider's perspective it is worshipped and portrayed in the same way as the normal idea of gods in a polytheistic system.

Well, Jesus was Jewish and as such there really was NO reason for him to go to India.

Why not? Maybe he just wanted to? Although there were several reasons: he might have heard stories about them and wanted to go and investigate; he went travelling like many other subjects of the Roman empire, taking advantage of the relative peace; he went to escape from Roman oppression, since the Jews were rather restless and often rebelled. I really don't know, I'm just guessing.

The understanding of a Messiah/Savior has been found in almost ALL religions and pagan beliefs man.
This is why I believe that pretty much all the time when you find the same story/symbol/etc. in every culture, it probably DID happen or is looked upon as going to happen. Ex. Noah's flood and flood stories around the world: Pagan flood stories mention 8 people surviving, not just the Biblical account.

True, however there are other parallels between Jesus and Krishna. I agree that the coming of a saviour was foretold, however I was referring specifically to the way Jesus is portrayed: as an earthly manifestation of God, according to the council of Nicaea and numerous accounts of the time. Another possibility is that Jesus himself did not go to India, but someone else with knowledge of Hinduism wrote about him.

[hellas1]

@CopperknickersII,
Disclaimer: No disrespect is meant by the contents of this post.

Quote:
"Did you know that Jesus almost certainly visited India during his 'lost years'? In fact, the idea of him being a son of God and yet for all intents and purposes One with Him is almost certainly a borrowing from the Hindu idea of avatara. As are numerous other ideas in Christianity, such as ahimsa (nonviolence) and indeed the very idea of such a person coming down from heaven to save people from their sins and tell them that the only way to achieve the ultimate goal of eternal life (described in similar terms to Moksha) is to live your life in a way which he will set forth, which is exactly what Krishna does in the Bhagavad Geeta. "

Well, Jesus was Jewish and as such there really was NO reason for him to go to India.
Having said that, the Jewish people did trade w/India and there ARE Indian Jews, similar to Ethiopian Jews.

The understanding of a Messiah/Savior has been found in almost ALL religions and pagan beliefs man.
This is why I believe that pretty much all the time when you find the same story/symbol/etc. in every culture, it probably DID happen or is looked upon as going to happen. Ex. Noah's flood and flood stories around the world: Pagan flood stories mention 8 people surviving, not just the Biblical account.

Regarding the "borrowing from Hindu idea of avatara:"
I don't think so. The Tanakh or "Old Testament" mentioned the Messiah or "Promised One" in Hebrew a long time ago and the Jewish people were originally from Mesopotamia.....Abram from Ur of the Chaldeans, not Harappa or Mohenjodaro in India. Abram, name changed to Abraham, traveled westward as a nomad and encountered the "Sons of Heth" or the Hittite Empire and the Genesis or Beresheis (In Hebrew) account of Abraham's dealings with the Hittite Lords/Chiefs concurs with the archaeological record. Abraham then setted in the general area of the modern state of Israel.

My bottom line is that Jesus said "I'm the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me." Jesus also said "I proceeded from the Father."

Now, What God has shown me through the comparative religious studies that I've done is private but I'd be willing to share it with honest and moral people (if there are any on this sub-forum like basics, for example) who can keep secrets, so to speak.

hellas1.5

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

it's not really a deity, its a universal spirit of existence.

It really depends on the school you adhere to.

[Copperknickers II]

It really depends on the school you adhere to.

Indeed, but like I said, even when it is there are still other gods, correct me if I'm wrong.