Danes having problems

[EncryptedToast]

So I decided to try Denmark in the Tuetonic campaign in Kingdoms.

Things started out ok enough, at this point Norway is gone and I have that entire area, Abo, the little Island off the east coast (Visby I think).

The HRE is almost gone, only a few regions left. Problem is at this point they are wiping the floor with me unless I outnumber them like 3:1. They have those two handed guys, Zwei something or other and lots of heavy cav. I am running into the same struggle I usually have in that my cities that produce the best units are always too far away. so I end up patching together whatever I can which is rarely enough because its a mish mash of dismounted huscarls, x-bow militia, norse war clerics, bombards, scouts and as many generals as I can squeeze in.

Even if I have 6 units of archers/xbows firing at them they seem to arrive in good enough shape to slaughter me, and that is with the heavy inf. right behind the ranged units to intercept them. The Norse War Clerics have been underwhelming, I read so many good things about them but they are rubbish for me.

And when/how do I get gunpowder units?! I have had the gunsmith forever but dont see any options to get guns. How can I find this out?

Speaking of that, do the Danes ever get better spears? The spear militia is not quite cutting it anymore.

[Remo]

So I decided to try Denmark in the Tuetonic campaign in Kingdoms.

Things started out ok enough, at this point Norway is gone and I have that entire area, Abo, the little Island off the east coast (Visby I think).

The HRE is almost gone, only a few regions left. Problem is at this point they are wiping the floor with me unless I outnumber them like 3:1. They have those two handed guys, Zwei something or other and lots of heavy cav. I am running into the same struggle I usually have in that my cities that produce the best units are always too far away. so I end up patching together whatever I can which is rarely enough because its a mish mash of dismounted huscarls, x-bow militia, norse war clerics, bombards, scouts and as many generals as I can squeeze in.

Even if I have 6 units of archers/xbows firing at them they seem to arrive in good enough shape to slaughter me, and that is with the heavy inf. right behind the ranged units to intercept them. The Norse War Clerics have been underwhelming, I read so many good things about them but they are rubbish for me.

And when/how do I get gunpowder units?! I have had the gunsmith forever but dont see any options to get guns. How can I find this out?

Speaking of that, do the Danes ever get better spears? The spear militia is not quite cutting it anymore.

I'll try to help the best I can.

War Clerics are good cavalry if you use them in the right situations. They aren't like other cavalry in that their charge isn't as good. What they lack in the traditional sense of Heavy Cavalry (Charging) they gain in straight up fighting ability and very strong armor.

Use them like you would Heavy Infantry. Flank the weakest targets on the field with them, let them crush them.

Danes should be used with an attrition based strategy. As they lack really good Professional Armies like the Holy Roman Empire. Use constant hit and run tactics, and try not to get all of your men in combat at once, keep some back in the reserves. Send in your weaker infantry first to soak up some of their troops, then send in your heavy hitters.

There is nothing wrong with waiting to receive reinforcements. Camp out in the most threatened city/castle with your primary army, handle their constant onslaught until your reinforcement army arrives. Then counter attack into their territory. A screenshot of your current campaign map would be nice btw.


As for gunpowder units, I was under the impression you got them around 1300.

Also, the Danes did not favor spears as one of their most used weapons. I do believe you get Obudshaer which wield halberds.

[EncryptedToast]

I'll try to help the best I can.

War Clerics are good cavalry if you use them in the right situations. They aren't like other cavalry in that their charge isn't as good. What they lack in the traditional sense of Heavy Cavalry (Charging) they gain in straight up fighting ability and very strong armor.

Use them like you would Heavy Infantry. Flank the weakest targets on the field with them, let them crush them.

Danes should be used with an attrition based strategy. As they lack really good Professional Armies like the Holy Roman Empire. Use constant hit and run tactics, and try not to get all of your men in combat at once, keep some back in the reserves. Send in your weaker infantry first to soak up some of their troops, then send in your heavy hitters.

There is nothing wrong with waiting to receive reinforcements. Camp out in the most threatened city/castle with your primary army, handle their constant onslaught until your reinforcement army arrives. Then counter attack into their territory. A screenshot of your current campaign map would be nice btw.


As for gunpowder units, I was under the impression you got them around 1300.

Also, the Danes did not favor spears as one of their most used weapons. I do believe you get Obudshaer which wield halberds.

Thanks, will try to get a screen shot when I can.

So the Clerics should not charge but just march in like infantry?

Since I don't have spears beyond the cruddy militia, what is prefered to hold of the heavy cav charges?

I wont get gunpowder until turn 1300???? Is that a typo, did you mean 130? I am only on like turn 70.

[Remo]

Thanks, will try to get a screen shot when I can.

So the Clerics should not charge but just march in like infantry?

Since I don't have spears beyond the cruddy militia, what is prefered to hold of the heavy cav charges?

I wont get gunpowder until turn 1300???? Is that a typo, did you mean 130? I am only on like turn 70.

No, Clerics can still charge, they just shouldn't be used as a shock troop like Heavy Cavalry is.

When Heavy Cavalry fights, it's this big BANG and all of a sudden you lose 50-100 men. When Clerics fight, it's a more drawn out fight, which should be waged against troops that can't fight back against the clerics. Like infantry equipped with weapons not suited for fighting cavalry.

Correct formation of your spear men, no matter how weak can defend you against cavalry. If you form in a wedge formation, they can't crash directly through you, but will be stopped by the men behind the unit they hit.

Just got through posting this in another thread, but it works all the same.



Regardless of how many men you have, if you form a Triangle with your men pointed at the enemy, it will defend against cavalry.

This formation also has the benefit of giving extended use out of your Archers, as they can hit targets much easier because of it.

As for Gunpowder, I meant Year 1300, not Turn 1300.

[EncryptedToast]

No, Clerics can still charge, they just shouldn't be used as a shock troop like Heavy Cavalry is.

When Heavy Cavalry fights, it's this big BANG and all of a sudden you lose 50-100 men. When Clerics fight, it's a more drawn out fight, which should be waged against troops that can't fight back against the clerics. Like infantry equipped with weapons not suited for fighting cavalry.

Correct formation of your spear men, no matter how weak can defend you against cavalry. If you form in a wedge formation, they can't crash directly through you, but will be stopped by the men behind the unit they hit.

Just got through posting this in another thread, but it works all the same.



Regardless of how many men you have, if you form a Triangle with your men pointed at the enemy, it will defend against cavalry.

This formation also has the benefit of giving extended use out of your Archers, as they can hit targets much easier because of it.

As for Gunpowder, I meant Year 1300, not Turn 1300.

Ah, thanks for that.

Where do I see the year? All I see is the turn number.

[Remo]

Ah, thanks for that.

Where do I see the year? All I see is the turn number.

Should be right above your map. Will say 1*** AD.

[Silverheart]

Since you apparently have a sizeable empire and stabile empire, why don´t you recruit a couple of campaign armies of elite units, and send them to the front?
If you suffer heavy casualties, you have more than one nearby to press onward while the other go back for retraining.
You also have possibility to attack several targets at once.

Also, don´t forget to not rely on War Clerics, but use Knights for charging and the Clerics for attacking those enemies which are already engaged - and to focus them on the heaviest foes, that´s where they´re at their best.

[EncryptedToast]

Since you apparently have a sizeable empire and stabile empire, why don´t you recruit a couple of campaign armies of elite units, and send them to the front?
.

I am not sure I get what you are suggesting....what is a campaign army of elite units?

[13lackGu4rd]

he means the Danish elite units, such as the Norse War Clerics, Obushaers, Chivalric Knights, etc. basically make full stacks of the best units you have available and crush the AI armies that are generally full of weak militia units and mercenaries.

[EncryptedToast]

he means the Danish elite units, such as the Norse War Clerics, Obushaers, Chivalric Knights, etc. basically make full stacks of the best units you have available and crush the AI armies that are generally full of weak militia units and mercenaries.

Ah, ok.

So for me at present time that means a unit of nothing but Norse War Clerics.

[Remo]

Ah, ok.

So for me at present time that means a unit of nothing but Norse War Clerics.

Remember, an army full of the same unit won't be as strong as a mixed army.

Take militia spearmen and archers with you if you have to.

Going cavalry heavy isn't a bad thing, but you have to use them correctly. With the Clerics I would suggest getting your spear militia or whatever you have into melee combat with the enemy, then throwing your clerics into the mix. You don't need to necessarily flank, just have them attack from your side of the fight. Use them like heavy infantry to support your militia.

[EncryptedToast]

Remember, an army full of the same unit won't be as strong as a mixed army.

Ah, I get that. But the only Elite units I am capable of making at this point are the Clerics.

[Remo]

Ah, I get that. But the only Elite units I am capable of making at this point are the Clerics.

Then field some clerics with a Militia army.

Have your Militia start the fight and finish it with your Clerics.

[Mik528]

Dismounted Husarls and Huscarls are amazing also. Dont forget to include them in your force. Sami Axemen for early shock infantry also

[Silverheart]

Use Norse War Clerics and Feudal Knights or Mailed Knights for cavalry,
Dismounted Huskarls, Dismounted Feudal Knights, Two-handed Axemen and Spear militia/Swordstaff Militia for infantry (the Danes are super-strong on infantry, but you have to build the right buildings too )
and Norse Archers + Crossbow Militia for missile duties.
Maybe two Catapults or so, too...

Remember to not rely on archers (huge mistake when playing as Denmark - take two, three units or so) and use at least four units of cavalry (preferably six or even eight) and the rest should preferably be heavy infantry for crashing into the enemies and shock them (Dismounted Huskarls are great for this, since they scare nearby enemy infantry)

[EncryptedToast]

Things are going a little better now, thanks for the tips.

Now my biggest threat is that danged plague, it's wiping out my towns

[Silverheart]

Things are going a little better now, thanks for the tips.

Now my biggest threat is that danged plague, it's wiping out my towns

Crap happens, just cancel all new construction to put focus on health-improving buildings (Town halls, Cathedrals and Farms) and don´t forget to get your important armies and FMs out of their settlements, lest they´ll suffer too.
oh, and don´t conquer any enemy settlements until the plague has disappeared - you don´t want your campaign armies to get their strength and manpower sapped.

[PrestigeX]

Armored Clergy (norse war clerics) are a very over-rated unit. Their saving grace is that they're recruited in the cities, but I wouldn't really value them too much above Merchant Cav Militia . For the price, Huscarls are a better choice - but even then, for Denmark the best Cavalry options are.. scouts, Feudal knights, Chivalric knights, and Mounted Xbowmen. The best 'faction specific' cavalry is the Scouts - light cav with Axes ( Ap bonus ) , especially good if you get a blacksmith so they've got armor.

Infantry - the best unit they have on their roster is the Norse Swordsmen -- inexpensive, abundant, and highly capable. In vanilla, Obudashaer, swordstaff, and norse axemen are almost useless ( in some mods they're 'fixed' tho ) . Dismounted Huscarls are good but I don't think they get the same utility, cost effectiveness and abundance as Swordsmen...For my danish infantry, I basically stick to Spear Militias and Norse Swordsmen. Spear militia are pretty good once you get them armor upgrades - can't really expect them to 'break' the enemy, they just have to stay in a big chunk of a line and let the swordsmen do all the fighting.

Norse Archers are preferable to Crossbowmen, since they can shoot faster and are decent in melee-- but still they can't compare to other faction's archers. (Btw, 'crossbowmen' as seen in denmark's and france's rosters, are just rubbish, they use the wooden crossbow, just get crossbow militia instead it's cheaper and more plentiful).

Just try to remember scouts, norse swordsmen, and typical european Cavalry, and make use of mounted xbows too - not their faction specials, and denmark will be formidable.

[Silverheart]

I don´t know... The Norse Swordsmen have disappointed me several times before, so I don´t have much fancy for them anymore. I prefer using DFKs for swordsmen duties, or Dismounted Huskarls/Viking Raiders for infantry duties.
I get a better performance out of those guys in battle, but the Norse Swordsmen are great for defending walls, though.

And I agree that the Norse War Clerics are overrated, that´s why you use them in tandem with chargers to pin down and engulf the enemy.
I once had a Danish campaign where one of my distant cities was being defended by the free-upkeep-garrison and 8 unitss of Clerics. I used the clerics to charge out whenever there was a siege - they suffered heavy casualties every time. Thankfully I had lots of them, so they always came out victorious.

[PrestigeX]

I don´t know... The Norse Swordsmen have disappointed me several times before, so I don´t have much fancy for them anymore. I prefer using DFKs for swordsmen duties, or Dismounted Huskarls/Viking Raiders for infantry duties.
I get a better performance out of those guys in battle, but the Norse Swordsmen are great for defending walls, though.

And I agree that the Norse War Clerics are overrated, that´s why you use them in tandem with chargers to pin down and engulf the enemy.
I once had a Danish campaign where one of my distant cities was being defended by the free-upkeep-garrison and 8 unitss of Clerics. I used the clerics to charge out whenever there was a siege - they suffered heavy casualties every time. Thankfully I had lots of them, so they always came out victorious.

especially with Denmark and Scotland, .. I make use of inexpensive infantry - they don't take that heavy of casualities I find, and are just easier to recruit tons of. Yes DFK's are better, but only slightly - extra cost/upkeep doesn't justify their use unless playing as ..France or HRE perhaps. Big body of Spear Militia (blacksmith upgraded) -- say 6-8 of them in a thick line, closely packed... line of swordsmen/highlanders behind, divided into 'two wings'.. enemy engages, the two wings run out and around to the flank and hit the sides and completely surround enemy infantry -- Hammer and Anvil but without the cavalry -- until the horsemen have mopped up the enemy Fam Member and Archers, then last in for the kill -- love seeing "broken, fighting to the death" on the enemy's DFKS and other expensive troops =P