Battle Formations and Strategies

[Remo]

I have seen a lot of people having problems winning evenly matched battles against the AI. So this thread will cover starting formation's and overall battle strategies. This is mainly for people playing SS(Just as useful in non-SS games) when the difficulty is set to the highest(With mods) and specific tactics are needed to win where normal blob strategies fail miserably.

First off a few tips that people forget:

1: If you can get the high ground, TAKE IT. (Everyone should already know this)
2: A balanced army is far more efficient than an army that consists of a single unit or bulk of that unit.
3: Know your units uses, and use them to your advantage. A lot of people do NOT like Javelins, so I will cover them a few times in this thread. There are a few others that need to be listed as well.

Secondly there is one thing that everyone needs to know. Not every Strategy works every time. Nor can you predict an enemy's layout before the fight starts. Being able to change things up during a fight is useful though not always a necessity. However! There is one thing you can ALWAYS predict in the enemy. They will always and without fail, have a center line. That is 100% true and will always be. So when you see my strategies, it will always be against a front line and never will it have a full enemy setup.

Everyone should be able to adapt to the enemy. I will list strategies that will cover every type of army.

I know some of you don't need this kind of help, but some do and you are welcome to post your own strategies. I just know there are a lot of people out there that would love to learn a little more than just smacking your infantry into the enemy's and hoping you survive longer.

Legend: (I misspelled Auxiliary, so sue me)


A Single bar does not mean a single unit! It can mean multiple units. Although some formations require a certain amount of units. For instance, in the Oblique Order, it requires at the very least 3 units in the front and 1 on the back left(Or right depending on the side you choose). Adapt the strategies to the amount of troops in your army. The Oblique order CAN be done with 10 groups in the front if you wish. Though I would suggest you use a formation designed for a larger army at that point.
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First one is for smaller battles, where you each only have maybe 4 groups of soldiers. This is true for the first 10 years in any campaign.

This is simple yet highly effective, it's Frederick II's Oblique Order. Granted, this isn't even from the Medieval times it's still just as effective.

Oblique Order:


This formation is used to swing their right flank (Or left flank) around into themselves, causing a total collapse of their line. In the early period of my campaigns I frequently use this formation to win battles with my militia troops. It is completely interchangeable and is perfect for pushing an early route against low morale troops. If you have cavalry put them on the Left flank, if you have some reserves they go on the right. I listed the spot for the Auxiliary even though you don't need them.

When done correctly, it will look like this (Ignore the french text).
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Next one is one of my absolute favorites, I call it the Archer Dominance formation or ArcherD.

ArcherD:


This formation gets the absolute most out of your archers against an aggressive enemy. Ever had the enemy smash into your lines making them too close to hit with your archers. Not only does that make you waste more men, it takes away an advantage.

Well this formation gives you that advantage back. Having your formation set with a single unit out in a front wedge, it will cause the enemy to drape around your front line, which will leave the enemy at an angle for your archers to pound on.

After the fight has started, it will end up looking like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Going to wait if anybody wants more of these before I post more.

[Remo]

Guess nobody is into strats...

[ma04hew]

Loving this so far, please continue

Tried the first one and it worked like a peach! In fact, it worked so well that my two units there killed their one unit and got in behind the back of their other units!

[Remo]

Loving this so far, please continue

Tried the first one and it worked like a peach! In fact, it worked so well that my two units there killed their one unit and got in behind the back of their other units!

I will continue even if you are the only one who needs them. Though it would be nice to have some more support from other players.

Some of the future setups are my babies and I used them to win a lot of my ETW online matches. So it's like giving away family secrets lol.

Also, if you can record video or screen shots, feel free to post them here so we can see them working for you. Would love any feedback you can give.

[kevindrosario]

Strategies are always interesting to read. It's always nice to try out new things in battles rather than the same old strategies I use over and over. I would be very interested in seeing some more.

[MooseUpNorth]

Yeah, go ahead. What you've listed so far is fresh. I'm interested in seeing what else you've got.

[13lackGu4rd]

the graphs are a nice touch, but I feel that the people really needing these strategies will need some elaboration as well. for example in your first formation they should send the back group of infantry on your overloaded left around the enemy infantry to strike their flank and even rear rather than just push it up with the front group in a big blob on the left side. the second formation seems to be the exact opposite of what Hannibal Barca used against the Romans, in his case the center was the weakest part so when the Romans won at the center they pushed Hannibal's formation inwards causing Hannibal's superior flanks(which had his elite troops) to envelope the Romans and slaughter them. your formation is a nice touch, using the same concept but in reverse in order to take advantage of your archer superiority when you have it. liked your creativity there

so anyway, as I started saying, you can add Hannibal's formation too if you want, Alexander's hammer and anvil, etc. there's no shame "copying" strategies from the greatest generals of old, even if a bit outside of their period. cause lets face it, during Medieval times generals and battle tactics weren't as advanced as they were in ancient times(ironic isn't it), only a handful of Medieval generals really stood out, heck most of them weren't even generals but kings or princes.

[Remo]

the graphs are a nice touch, but I feel that the people really needing these strategies will need some elaboration as well. for example in your first formation they should send the back group of infantry on your overloaded left around the enemy infantry to strike their flank and even rear rather than just push it up with the front group in a big blob on the left side. the second formation seems to be the exact opposite of what Hannibal Barca used against the Romans, in his case the center was the weakest part so when the Romans won at the center they pushed Hannibal's formation inwards causing Hannibal's superior flanks(which had his elite troops) to envelope the Romans and slaughter them. your formation is a nice touch, using the same concept but in reverse in order to take advantage of your archer superiority when you have it. liked your creativity there

so anyway, as I started saying, you can add Hannibal's formation too if you want, Alexander's hammer and anvil, etc. there's no shame "copying" strategies from the greatest generals of old, even if a bit outside of their period. cause lets face it, during Medieval times generals and battle tactics weren't as advanced as they were in ancient times(ironic isn't it), only a handful of Medieval generals really stood out, heck most of them weren't even generals but kings or princes.

Yea those are good, thing is Hannibal's strategy involved losing men on purpose to trap his enemy.

As for the Oblique order, you don't flank with the loaded side, you just smash through with overwhelming power. Flanking is best left to your cavalry (Which I stated goes on the overloaded side).

I'll elaborate even more on my next ones.

Alexanders Hammer and Anvil is a good one.

[Remo]

Since there are people who want more, I'm going to change everything into Animated Flash Files.

That way we can see how things are supposed to work during a fight.

Will take me a little longer but bare with me, it will end up looking great.

EDIT: Heres a quick image of how it will look like if I do them in Gif's.

Oblique Order

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, Hannibal's formation does involve losing men on purpose, but for nations without strong spearmen(basically any faction other than the Italians early on) for example, they will be using pretty crappy spears until they can train Armored Sergeants. so whether intentional or not you will lose plenty of them. might as well make the most out of such situations.

as for the Oblique Order, are you using spearmen for both the front and back row on the left? generally I find that back line infantry are wasted when shoved along with the front line, as only a handful of their troops will actually be fighting yet the entire unit will get tired and lose morale. so unless your front line dies very quickly it's better to use the back row as flankers, and preferably not spearmen but some kind of shock infantry(even DFKs if you don't have anything else, but generally cheaper 2 handers like Billmen, Woodsmen, etc do the job better and are more easily replaceable if things go south).

as far as other formations go, there's always the classic front line spearmen and cavalry going from behind and surrounding both flanks, either for repeated hammer and anvil strikes or even just a complete encirclement to cause the enemy forces to fight to the death and get annihilated(useful in situations like trapping high quality enemy cavalry that you won't be able to chase and destroy with your own heavy cavalry, and you want them dead). there's also the Roman checkers formation which keeps your quality troops fresh while your enemies get tired on your low quality troops, so when the elites join the fight(from a reserve position) they'll steamroll the very tired/exhausted enemies while they're still fresh. if you're also into more specialized formations there are the various pike formations, stake deployment from elite archers(Longbowmen, Janissary Archers, etc), a more loose formation focusing on shock troops rather than spearmen(useful for Scotland, Denmark, etc) which relies on baiting and charging from behind rather than having a powerful front line of spearmen, etc.

[Remo]

yeah, Hannibal's formation does involve losing men on purpose, but for nations without strong spearmen(basically any faction other than the Italians early on) for example, they will be using pretty crappy spears until they can train Armored Sergeants. so whether intentional or not you will lose plenty of them. might as well make the most out of such situations.

as for the Oblique Order, are you using spearmen for both the front and back row on the left? generally I find that back line infantry are wasted when shoved along with the front line, as only a handful of their troops will actually be fighting yet the entire unit will get tired and lose morale. so unless your front line dies very quickly it's better to use the back row as flankers, and preferably not spearmen but some kind of shock infantry(even DFKs if you don't have anything else, but generally cheaper 2 handers like Billmen, Woodsmen, etc do the job better and are more easily replaceable if things go south).

as far as other formations go, there's always the classic front line spearmen and cavalry going from behind and surrounding both flanks, either for repeated hammer and anvil strikes or even just a complete encirclement to cause the enemy forces to fight to the death and get annihilated(useful in situations like trapping high quality enemy cavalry that you won't be able to chase and destroy with your own heavy cavalry, and you want them dead). there's also the Roman checkers formation which keeps your quality troops fresh while your enemies get tired on your low quality troops, so when the elites join the fight(from a reserve position) they'll steamroll the very tired/exhausted enemies while they're still fresh. if you're also into more specialized formations there are the various pike formations, stake deployment from elite archers(Longbowmen, Janissary Archers, etc), a more loose formation focusing on shock troops rather than spearmen(useful for Scotland, Denmark, etc) which relies on baiting and charging from behind rather than having a powerful front line of spearmen, etc.

I play with The Roman Empire, so when I pull an Oblique Order I usually have either some spear militia in the front, or Skoutatoi. As for my loaded side, I actually have Akritae doing the pushing behind the spearmen. As they have Javelins they aren't just sitting idle.

You aren't the only one who favors doing a complete flank instead of using a direct stack push force an early route. It seems to be many peoples preferred go-to tactic. Honestly, I use it myself a lot, however it has it's disadvantages.

With a properly performed Oblique Order, using the direct push, it is a solid passive aggressive attack. If you don't manage to push completely and your line starts to fall on your unloaded side, you can easily move your pushers in place to reinforce them. However, using an Oblique Order setup and instead of a direct push behind your troops like I recommended, you instead go for a strong left flank(With a left loaded side), you are committed at that point. Not only can you no longer pull those flankers out of the fight to reinforce your weak side, IF your weak side fails, you can be flanked yourself. Which has the unfortunate problem of leaving your archers wide open as they are placed directly behind the weak side.

Also, of note, doing a strong flank instead of a passive aggressive push can be countered easily if they have cavalry. Yet, doing the tactic I showed will keep you defended from their cavalry while also increasing your chances of completely routing one of their flanks.

The Oblique Order is a lot deeper than it seems. It's not just for pushing and folding their flank in, it's also a solid Defensive setup for countering anything that is thrown at you.

I look forward to talking more tactics with you. You really seem to know your stuff.

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, been playing RTW for a very long time, only recently got into M2TW, mainly after playing a lot of the Chivalry Total War mod for RTW, which is pretty similar to the actual M2TW but on the RTW engine and settings. the ancient era interests me a lot, so I know a bit about the ancient generals, some of their tactics, etc. the medieval period is also nice, just a lot less organized than ancient times, with more focus on personal valor instead of more organized tactics and discipline, for the "civilized" nations rather than just the so called "barbarians" of ancient times. yeah, sure the European nobility were heavily trained and equipped with the best weapons and armor available, but they weren't professionals in the sense that the Roman armies were. this is especially true for the generals, which in medieval times were generally royal family members rather than trained and disciplined generals. still, it's a nice change of pace, as RTW even with mods(Chivalry TW, Total Realism, Europa Barbarorum, SPQR, etc) it's still the same era and I could really use the mix up that M2TW offers from Rome. tried NTW as well but I don't feel that the TW series fits well into the gunpowder age, so I don't really like it.

I find your explanation of the The Oblique Order formation interesting. is it supposed to be a formation for multiplayer? cause in single player the AI just isn't smart enough to save his cavalry and charge your flanking units, making usual flanking/enveloping tactics extra effective and almost risk free against the AI. in multiplayer it's obviously a completely different story.

oh and another tactic that is pretty useful, both for single player but especially for multiplayer is to use light cavalry to counter charge heavy cavalry, out-speeding them and stopping the heavy cavalry's charge onto your own units. Venice is perfect for this with their Mace wielding Stratidos(sp) as they can really put the hurt on armored heavy cavalry after the weak charge against them, than quickly run away before suffering too many losses of their own.

[Remo]

yeah, been playing RTW for a very long time, only recently got into M2TW, mainly after playing a lot of the Chivalry Total War mod for RTW, which is pretty similar to the actual M2TW but on the RTW engine and settings. the ancient era interests me a lot, so I know a bit about the ancient generals, some of their tactics, etc. the medieval period is also nice, just a lot less organized than ancient times, with more focus on personal valor instead of more organized tactics and discipline, for the "civilized" nations rather than just the so called "barbarians" of ancient times. yeah, sure the European nobility were heavily trained and equipped with the best weapons and armor available, but they weren't professionals in the sense that the Roman armies were. this is especially true for the generals, which in medieval times were generally royal family members rather than trained and disciplined generals. still, it's a nice change of pace, as RTW even with mods(Chivalry TW, Total Realism, Europa Barbarorum, SPQR, etc) it's still the same era and I could really use the mix up that M2TW offers from Rome. tried NTW as well but I don't feel that the TW series fits well into the gunpowder age, so I don't really like it.

I find your explanation of the The Oblique Order formation interesting. is it supposed to be a formation for multiplayer? cause in single player the AI just isn't smart enough to save his cavalry and charge your flanking units, making usual flanking/enveloping tactics extra effective and almost risk free against the AI. in multiplayer it's obviously a completely different story.

oh and another tactic that is pretty useful, both for single player but especially for multiplayer is to use light cavalry to counter charge heavy cavalry, out-speeding them and stopping the heavy cavalry's charge onto your own units. Venice is perfect for this with their Mace wielding Stratidos(sp) as they can really put the hurt on armored heavy cavalry after the weak charge against them, than quickly run away before suffering too many losses of their own.

I play Stainless Steel with the ReallyBadAI mod, which makes the battle AI extremely smart. They protect their general, their archers and they even stop flanks by hitting the supposed aggressors with their cavalry.

[EncryptedToast]

This

Is

Fantastic!

[EncryptedToast]

I have a question;

Early on in my campaigns I seem to be up against armies that have either more ranged units than I do, or they have a longer range. So they can just sit there and pummel me. If I try to advance my guys get torn up by the time they get there, and if I charge it messes up any pretty lines I may have started with because everybody runs at a different speed.

Do you have any diagrams for that kind of scenario?

Oh, another one:

How about when the enemy is on a hill and you are at the bottom; never ideal but sometimes it just works out that way. Does anything change in the setup?

[13lackGu4rd]

I have a question;

Early on in my campaigns I seem to be up against armies that have either more ranged units than I do, or they have a longer range. So they can just sit there and pummel me. If I try to advance my guys get torn up by the time they get there, and if I charge it messes up any pretty lines I may have started with because everybody runs at a different speed.

Do you have any diagrams for that kind of scenario?

Oh, another one:

How about when the enemy is on a hill and you are at the bottom; never ideal but sometimes it just works out that way. Does anything change in the setup?

if the enemy has superior range try to chase them away with your cavalry, either you can route/wipe them or at the worst case scenario(for you) they just run away due to skirmish mode, buying you more time to rush your infantry forward and engage the enemy.

as far as hills and high ground goes. most maps don't have a hill right in the middle of them that can pretty much force the enemy to fight from a low ground. usually there's enough room to walk around and climb the hill to fight on equal footing. worst case scenario, use a lot of missile units(preferably not on horseback, you need the numbers) and try to soften up the fortified hill top position before charging uphill with your infantry.

[Remo]

I have a question;

Early on in my campaigns I seem to be up against armies that have either more ranged units than I do, or they have a longer range. So they can just sit there and pummel me. If I try to advance my guys get torn up by the time they get there, and if I charge it messes up any pretty lines I may have started with because everybody runs at a different speed.

Do you have any diagrams for that kind of scenario?

Oh, another one:

How about when the enemy is on a hill and you are at the bottom; never ideal but sometimes it just works out that way. Does anything change in the setup?

What 13lackGu4rd said is a good answer, but I think I can add my knowledge as well.

When facing an army with superior range, The first thing you want to do is obviously try to gain Cavalry superiority. If you lack Cavalry which can happen to some factions early on, you want to initiate an attack with their infantry as early as possible.

Once in a melee fight, it makes the enemy unable to hit you with accurate arrow fire and in some cases they will kill their own men if they decide to fire. Useful thing for getting across the field is to put your units in spread formation. This lowers casualties by a dramatic amount. What could be 50 losses could be 5 in some cases.

As for fighting an army on high ground, you will want to do as 13lackGu4rd said, find a way on equal footing. As any good General knows, fighting from the ground of your choosing is what wins battles. A general of note who did this in almost every battle with Rome was Hannibal Barca. That man's tactics are to be truly admired, many of which can be used in this very game.

I plan to release more diagrams, my flash has been acting up and I'm have to fix the problems with it before I move on. But soon I will add more.

[13lackGu4rd]

"ReallyBadAI mod" nice cynicism heh? sounds like an interesting mod, can it also be run in vanilla or only with SS and perhaps other mods? also, where do I get it from, sounds like something worth trying

[Remo]

The mod itself is in this thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...99#post5026499

If you haven't played Stainless Steel yet, I would suggest it. It adds a lot more realism to the game and difficulty.

Vanilla honestly isn't even on the same level as SS.

I think you can get it with just the RC/RR mod.

Don't know if it can work with only Vanilla.

Seriously though, if you value difficulty and realism, SS 6.4 with BygIV and ReallyBadAI is a must.

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah I value realism and difficulty but unfortunately I also have a soft spot for vanilla games. sure, I've played various RTW mods but it took me a very long time to switch over from vanilla. not because the mods are bad or anything, far from it, but for some reason I keep on getting the feeling that vanilla is indeed how the game company(in this case CA, in other games different companies obviously) intended the game to be played and enjoyed, and while modding does make things better it also has a tendency of altering parts of vanilla game play that had a reason to be how they were. kind of hard to explain this feeling.

anyway, I'll finish all my current campaigns than I'll probably give SS a shot. have a lot of campaigns to finish through, as I love playing a lot of nations and don't play 1 campaign from start to finish but rather bring a lot of campaigns to certain points than rotate between them. right now I got a Milan campaign around turn 80(a few turns after the Mongol Invasion), which is my most advanced, than Denmark, HRE, England, France, Scotland and the Byzantines as my runner up campaigns. all vh/vh of course but yeah they're obviously not that challenging, but at least I play slowly enough(rather than blitz style) to let the AI actually build up so when I get to the further nations they have some worthwhile armies, though still bad tactics(which is why I wondered if that AI improvement mod worked in vanilla).