Effective use of Cavalry

[Cavalyn]

Apologies for so many posts from myself first. But here is my latest question to you guys. I've recebtly been trying a Infantry/Bow army with no cavalry, in attempts to negate the fact that frankly. I suck at using cavalry. No word of a lie. I can charge 2 great guard, and a yari, into one yari cavalry coming the other way, and lose.

Even if i catch the drop on the front of a person's archer line, they manage to not lose any until my men are crushed. So I was wondering how you all win the cavalry fight. That is, to gain cavalry dominance over the map. So questions.



1) How much do you bring? What types. And typically what levels are they at?

2) If you bring lots of cavalry (or any at all), how do you balance it? A small elite army, or a few extra ashigaru units?

3) What veteran upgrades do you prioritise? For infantry I always take two points in fatigue resistance first, is that worth it with Cavalry, should I even consider melee defence?

4) Wedge.... i see everyone using it, does it honestly make a difference?

5) I've heard of people taking one bow cavalry unit, is that worth it? How do you use them effectively? Do you ever take katana cavalry? Are they viable??? Considering bow cavalry will suffer to concentrated archer fire... how does one single unit cope?

6) Do you use any retainers (other than shoguns emissary) to buff your cavalry? If I'm having trouble winning the cavalry fight, should I consider horse bandits?

7) Deployment - Hiding in forests is how I usually roll, but am I perhaps wasting them by trying to keep them hidden?

8) A solid battle line faces me. Bows at front, then matchlocks, with swords close behind and spears at back. What would be your first move? Assuming a solid infantry core, and 1-2 whistling arrows bow samurai....


I'm sorry for this freaking "exam" worth of questions. But I do wish to become better, and I'm losing so quickly I can barely understand somethings now.

[irmrodd]

1. i tend to bring about 2-3 units of veteran yari cavalry and theyre all rank 4-6
2. i dont ever use loads of them
3. get charge bonuses first then speed or melee attack since as far as i know defence doesnt go up very much but charge bonuses can help you destroy units in seconds
4. yeh it does since theyre more concentrated its like using a drill and you go straight through a unit (although if youre charging a lone archer unit or matchlock id just go in a line to try and kill at least a quarter of them in the inital charge)
5. if i take them i try to run behind the enemy army once theyre engaged and shoot into the back since itll drop theyre morale and wont do much friendly fire and no katana cavalry arent worth it ive never beaten another cavalry unit with them
6. i use once think its called training grounds or something for +2 attack for cavalry since if they get bogged down at least theyll take a few more men with them
7. yeh thats what i do to perform ambushes but dont make them fight in forests as their charge bonus is pretty much void
8. id probably move cavalry round either side shoot at matchlock with my bows until cavalry come in and hit them then target the swords behind as cavalry do as much damage to ranged units but pull them out before spears engage

thats all i can get out for now

[bangell99]

1) 4 yari cavalry.

2) A large melee force to complement it.

3) I opt for attack, charge and morale.

4) Something I want to find out myself. ^^

5) Generally not worth it.

6) Don't get your cavalry into fights they can't win. I use my retainers to help the infantry.

7) Most good players can tell if you're hiding cavalry.

8) Hit the matchlocks with your archers, spread into loose formation and rush the enemy. Save the cavalry for when they've thrown all their infantry into the melee.

[Evan MF]

Some tips:

- Get your General unit in the cavalry fight - it can tip the balance significantly. Use rally if need be and inspire on one of the better units (e.g. Great Guard Cavalry.)

- Do not order cavalry to charge until they are quite near the enemy because charging tires them out. Likewise, do not order them to charge literally right before you reach their cavalry units as you will not gain that momentum. (this tip applies to all units in general)

- If you have good charge cavalry (I.e. Yari Cavalry or Great Guard Cavalry) spread their lines widely so that when they hit the enemy cav their charge impact is maximised - if your unit is wider spread than their unit then you will also be able to surround them a bit which means they are even more vulnerable.

- If you have strong melee attack cavalry (I.e. Katana Cavalry or Great Guard Cavalry) engage them in the cavalry fight after you've charged in your "charge" cavalry - this minimises their losses. They thus do not suffer the enemy's charge but when engaged are able to work to their best effectiveness in the bogged down fight.

- Light Cavalry is great to harass missile units and to absorb missile damage (You may for example wish to sacrifice one to allow safe passage of say a Katana Cavalry if you were going for their bows/matchlocks. How you'd do this is you'd charge with missile cavalry infront of your better cavalry - the Light Cavalry absorb all losses.) Light Cavalry may also be the thing that gives you the slight edge in a cavalry vs cavalry fight if you were to engage them after the initial charge stages. Yet another use for Light Cavalry is to use it to lure enemy cavalry to ambush spots (where you've hidden your other cav).

- Regarding hidding Cavalry: its the most commonly hidden unit, but that does not mean it does not cause uncertainty to the enemy. If you are hidding cavalry, make sure that they are fully outside the woods when they engage, as cavalry have considerable disadvantage fighting in woods.

Evan

[Timox]

1.) 2 Great Guards, 1 yari. More funds more yari, lights, a bow cav in a skirmish build.
2.) Cav over archers.Matchlocks never get substituted.
3.) Depends on the role of cavalry, GG get melee defense, attack and charge as a priority, their moral is high enough anyway and they get second wind. Yari's are your charging cav, so charge and if you want them to live a bit longer melee defense and fatigue resist, they will do a lot of running to compensate for no archers. Bow cav have their own topic.
4.) Wedge is good if you want to leave your cavalry there, to have a second charge do it in standard wide formation.
5.) Bow cav is good but requires a lot of micro and is nearly negated by a rush army. Katana cav is useful on the other hand when dealing with katana heavy rush army but only if you keep them protected against other cav.
6.) Hopefully the patch will fix the speed retainer, otherwise it's better focus elsewhere.
7.) The general rule if you have more and/or better cav than the opponent try to gain cav superiority early to be able to cav skirmish and just keep the enemy on their toes. Cav superiority may allow you to separate the opponents army which is usually an insta-win. If you have less cav, keep them close, use them with spears as a counter against a stronger cav force, flank when you have a possibility.
8.) Cav allows you to pressure the opponent early on. Do it.

In this game cav is a bit less useful than in ETW/NTW but still with right approach can give you a head start in a match.

[Ming1]

Hiding them at the start to keep them a surprise doesn't really work unless you have a high veteran army. They can count your money spent and though they often don't know what you hid, they will be cautious all the same. There are so many things you can do with cavalry. Ex. If they have great guards and all you have are yari cav, keep them close to their army and have a clear path to their general, archers, etc. Threaten to charge, make a big show of it. They'll often hold back their great guards or some valuable naginata. Of course that won't work if they have yari ashigaru. They'll just keep their ashigaru in reserve and your threat neutralized your army more.

They also have great synergy with almost any army. Charge them at lower range archers and force them to concede the ground they gained under fire from your higher ranged archers, or at least force their spearmen to walk through their archer units, giving you more kills. Charge their archers so that your infantry/matchlocks can advance unscathed. Hide them in woods. The larger the wood covers the map, and the longer your cavalry are in the woods the more places your cavalry can pop out and it puts the other guy in a defensive position. I've never had this done to me, but if I see the other guy dismount and try to capture the dojo, I run my horses toward them and they often think I'm looking for a fight. They're quite confident that their dismounted yari, essentially spearmen, will beat my cavary but instead I just run around them and chase their horses away. Now they have some crappy yari with weak charge whom are far away from the battle. Be creative!

During the actual battle, you may want to keep them close to your army. When they make a mistake, exploit it. I've often had games where the other guy, panicked, charged his troops into battle and I'm left with a hard choice; what do I do with my cavalry? Kill his general, kill his archers or charge the backs of the swordsmen in melee?

[Timox]

Oh yeah! DO NOT CHARGE INTO WATER! It negates the charge. Also if you have an enemy unit close to the shore you need to estimate the distance to be sure that cav will be able to build the momentum necessary for a powerful charge. Try to cross the body of water and charge from land as your general rule. Katana cavalry are affected the least due to the balance of their basic melee stats and the charge bonus they get.

[vanadis]

I think wedge formation is very bugged, as it has been in Empire and Nappy. Think it's better not to use it 90% of the time.

[Thefallenhun]

1) I bring a pair of rank 4 GG, and maybe 3 light cav or two bow cav, but usually just 2 GG

2)A bring a couple of GG, so it doesn't really eat my budget, but I do use loanswords to pad out melee core.

3) For infatry I always take morale, then melee attack. Too many battles are decided long before you see fatigue set it. Also my general has max fatigue resist aura.

4) Yes

5) I feel like bow cav are good for cracking a common rank 10 tactic using bow monks matchlocks and spears to force you to charge and get shot apart. Properly microed bow cav will drop the bowmonks, giving you free reign to kill the matchlocks. Also I have never used katana cav myself, but they are suprisingly resilient.

6) Winning the cav fight is all about unit type, getting the charge bonus, and getting the terrain bonus, I only use shogun emissary.

7) Expect them to do a fast count and realise you have units hiding, and if they see no cav, they'll suspect cav, but they won't know when where or what type so it works.

8) A move I call the "90 degree" instead of facing them head on, move your whole army along one of their flanks, a huge number of players cannot properly turn their army to properly face that threat. I would use my cheapest cav to try and force the ranged into melee, then charge for all I was worth.