Roma Defenseless against Extremist Vigilantes

[Ahlerich]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...759586,00.html

so whats acually happening in hungary?
i read headlines about a constitution change that increases censorship

right extremists attacking gypsies unharmed, the eu beeing powerless but not amused etc.

is this all blown out of proportion by the media or do we have a EU member thats going rogue?`i am especially interested in opinions of hungarian posters and their opinion.
this seems to be the first eu member moving to the right that is acually more profitting from the eu then losing so i dont have an explenaition for whats happening there.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

They are not defenceless they carry blades.Maybe we could send them to a country and let them have it as there own state?It worked in the middle east maybe we can give all Gypsys MISRATHA as a capital....

[Thorn777]

They are not defenceless they carry blades.Maybe we could send them to a country and let them have it as there own state?It worked in the middle east maybe we can give all Gypsys MISRATHA as a capital....

Hope for you those two points where both meant jokingly.

Anyway I believe those crossderessing Jobbik characters need some country some place else.

The Hungarian Guard, clad in black uniforms, made a habit of frequently marching through towns and villages to call attention to so-called "Gypsy criminality," often with the raucous approval of non-Roma residents. Consequences for Roma, however, were often grim. In 2008, for example, the Hungarian Guard repeatedly turned up in the village of Tatárszentgyörgy, south of Budapest. In February 2009, a right-wing group set alight a house belonging to a Roma family on the edge of the village. A man and his son were shot to death as they tried to escape from the flames; his wife and daughter were seriously injured by gunfire.
The perpetrators, who ultimately murdered a total of six randomly chosen Roma and injured 55 in arson and firearm attacks, were arrested in the summer of 2009. They are currently being tried in Budapest. But horror at their crimes was far from widespread and right-extremist marches continued.
Jobbik was able to build on their general election success last April by securing up to 30 percent of the vote in eastern Hungary in municipal elections last autumn.

Good crime preventing hellsangels types...whats everyday people, women and children going to do against dozens of hooligan types? Organize into gangs themselves? I'd love to see the reactions on this board then on how once more evil gypsies are just not up to any good. And its the masses of peaceful people like @Tom Cruise and their funny little hidden racist opinions that make sure authorties can turn the blind eye.

[Basil II the B.S]

is this all blown out of proportion by the media or do we have a EU member thats going rogue?

Doubt it.
In the last election the nazi party in Hungary (Jobbik) got some 20%, so, yea it's probably true.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

I am joking yes but the part about giving them a land for themselves so they dont face persecution may be worth thinking about.Like Israel.Only we can call it GYPISEL

[Thorn777]

I am joking yes but the part about giving them a land for themselves so they dont face persecution may be worth thinking about.Like Israel.Only we can call it GYPISEL

Ok then. Well thats complicated and close to impossible for several reasons.

Best thing in my mind is that authorities just start doing their job.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Its the athorities that are the problem look at France and Bulgaria and Russia and Romania and Greece there governments dont give a shite about these people.France wants to evict them all even.I think the organized Roma gypsy ATM CARD FRAUD,BEGGING,PICKPOCKETS that are being shipped around europe is the cause of this steriotype racism.The others are unfortunate they get tarred with the same brush

[Oklop]

First of all, in my opinion all Neo-Nazi groups are frustrated retards. I hate them and wish them horrible fate. But they are having it easy when attacking Roma because of this:

There is a difference between Roma and Gypsy. At least how I see it.

Roma work and send their kids to school.

Gypsy do not work, have never worked and will never work, their kids beg or steal and do not go to school, they beg and steal. And let me tell you, if a Gypsy approaches your car on a traffic light and starts to wash your windshield, and you tell him/her to stop or turn on the wipers, they will tear off your windshield-wiper and kick your car and dent it. It is usually a kid so you can not smack it, and even if it is adult how will you make him pay? He has no papers or property, he does not exist.

Eventuallythe people (being dumb) will see the beatings by NN groups as something positive. Unfortunately Romas will get some violence as they are hated by the Neo Nazis.

So, Roma are good.
Gypsies are parasites.

EDIT: I am from the Balkans and know many Roma people. They hate Gypsies. Same language, names, looks, ethnicity but different life habits.

[Ahlerich]

particularly worring is that the goverment/police retreats and gives them a free hand instead of combatting the issue. is there no opposition? no human rights societies that oppose this?

[Oklop]

particularly worring is that the goverment/police retreats and gives them a free hand instead of combatting the issue. is there no opposition? no human rights societies that oppose this?

I do not know how things are in Hungary, but for example in Macedonia a few years ago a foreign help-Roma organization built a school in a Roma neighborhood so that the kids do not have to travel few kilometers to their school. Donations were made by the Macedonian governemt and by foreign NGO-s.

There was a nice ceremony, the mayor was there as well as Roma parliamentary member and it was all shown on TV.

During the night, Gypsies descended on the school and dismantled everything except the walls. So doors, windows, lights, floor tiles, toilets, urinals, basketball boards, all the wires from the walls, boards, chairs and tables from the classrooms.

All the foreign NGO workers lost hart the next day and stopped trying to explain how we do "not understand them (Gypsies) and their culture".
The Romas said there were dozens of Gypsies "working" during the night.

[tarvu]

I do not know how things are in Hungary, but for example in Macedonia a few years ago a foreign help-Roma organization built a school in a Roma neighborhood so that the kids do not have to travel few kilometers to their school. Donations were made by the Macedonian governemt and by foreign NGO-s.

There was a nice ceremony, the mayor was there as well as Roma parliamentary member and it was all shown on TV.

During the night, Gypsies descended on the school and dismantled everything except the walls. So doors, windows, lights, floor tiles, toilets, urinals, basketball boards, all the wires from the walls, boards, chairs and tables from the classrooms.

All the foreign NGO workers lost hart the next day and stopped trying to explain how we do "not understand them (Gypsies) and their culture".
The Romas said there were dozens of Gypsies "working" during the night.

That's pathetic, I have no respect for hypocrites and posers like that. Why are they even working at an NGO? They should go get some menial job elsewhere as they do more harm than help by pretending to give a about human beings when in fact they are as shallow and uncommitted as you described.

So people who live in extreme poverty and face high levels of discrimination, especially in your part of the world (I mean let's not dance around it, you've made the Balkans into a for not just the Roma but pretty much any group) resort to theft and reject outside aid as their means to "salvation". Hardly surprising, and hardly justification for the crimes committed against them. I guess no one explained that to them though?

The Roma have been persecuted throughout Europe and history, but you Balkan states manage to make even gypsy hate crimes appalling to a world that has little sympathy for these people. I am merely thankful that in addition to your many social shortcomings you are also so industrially and technologically backwards that you are at least constrained to making life hell for those unfortunate enough to wander into your corner of Europe and not the rest of us.

The thought of a Nazi party anywhere getting 20% of the vote in the 21st century is shockingly appalling, but I wouldn't worry too much about NATO intervention. I think you have so disgusted the rest of the world in the last two decades that intervention is now a very unattractive option, I think most states would rather intervene in places where there is real hope that things can actually be improved and an end be put to senseless sectarian violence...places like the Middle East. You know civilized places.

[Oklop]

That's pathetic, I have no respect for hypocrites and posers like that. Why are they even working at an NGO? They should go get some menial job elsewhere as they do more harm than help by pretending to give a about human beings when in fact they are as shallow and uncommitted as you described.

Well, to be honest the foreign workers were full of enthusiasm when they came at first. But harsh realities on the ground made them see that it is not easy to help people who do not want to be helped.

So people who live in extreme poverty and face high levels of discrimination, especially in your part of the world (I mean let's not dance around it, you've made the Balkans into a for not just the Roma but pretty much any group) resort to theft and reject outside aid as their means to "salvation". Hardly surprising, and hardly justification for the crimes committed against them. I guess no one explained that to them though?

Actually, there is relatively few violent attacks on Roma in ex-Yugoslav states. The leader in violence and killings of Roma is a European Union country - Hungary so please check your facts before accusing us.
We are bloodthirsty maniacs only to ourselves.

And Roma people have their own TV channels, newspapers, radio, Parliamentary members (at least in Macedonia and Serbia) and go to schools to study.

Gypsies do not. They live their specific way of life, have no papers and cross borders whenever they want. They live by begging and stealing. The lady that cleans at my place is Roma. She works for her pay, her husband also (he is a taxi driver) and they send their kids to school, English class and computer class. Sometimes with beatings as the kids are constantly mocked by Gypsy kids who live a carefree life of begging and stealing and without homework.

The Roma have been persecuted throughout Europe and history, but you Balkan states manage to make even gypsy hate crimes appalling to a world that has little sympathy for these people. I am merely thankful that in addition to your many social shortcomings you are also so industrially and technologically backwards that you are at least constrained to making life hell for those unfortunate enough to wander into your corner of Europe and not the rest of us.

Again, the leader in Roma hate attacks is EU country, the leader in Roma deportation is well respected and enlightened and freedom loving EU country (France), ex-Yugoslav countries are not. Please check your facts before posting something about us backward barbarians.

The thought of a Nazi party anywhere getting 20% of the vote in the 21st century is shockingly appalling, but I wouldn't worry too much about NATO intervention. I think you have so disgusted the rest of the world in the last two decades that intervention is now a very unattractive option, I think most states would rather intervene in places where there is real hope that things can actually be improved and an end be put to senseless sectarian violence...places like the Middle East. You know civilized places.

Again, the Nazi party won 20% of the votes in your precious and enlightened EU (Hungary). Please do not mix us with Nazis.

So if you think that normal states should intervene in places that are civilized like the Middle east, instead of uncivilized places like EU member states it is OK by me.

But Macedonia and Serbia have not voted Nazis, did not organize pogroms and did not deport those poor misunderstood people. We just build schools in Macedonia and in Serbia they just build apartment blocks, which those poor people dismantled and sold for scrap. They have, and still are refusing to change their lifestyle.

As I said, I divide them in 2 groups:
Roma - work, send kids to school, have papers, do not steal or beg (even sometimes pay taxes)
Gypsy - does not work, steals, sends kids to beg and pickpocket and so on.

Same language, ethnicity, looks..............but different lifestyles. There are whole villages of Roma in Serbia where they are farmers, like other non Roma farmers and live normal honest lives.

[tarvu]

Well, to be honest the foreign workers were full of enthusiasm when they came at first. But harsh realities on the ground made them see that it is not easy to help people who do not want to be helped.



Actually, there is relatively few violent attacks on Roma in ex-Yugoslav states. The leader in violence and killings of Roma is a European Union country - Hungary so please check your facts before accusing us.
We are bloodthirsty maniacs only to ourselves.

And Roma people have their own TV channels, newspapers, radio, Parliamentary members (at least in Macedonia and Serbia) and go to schools to study.

Gypsies do not. They live their specific way of life, have no papers and cross borders whenever they want. They live by begging and stealing. The lady that cleans at my place is Roma. She works for her pay, her husband also (he is a taxi driver) and they send their kids to school, English class and computer class. Sometimes with beatings as the kids are constantly mocked by Gypsy kids who live a carefree life of begging and stealing and without homework.



Again, the leader in Roma hate attacks is EU country, the leader in Roma deportation is well respected and enlightened and freedom loving EU country (France), ex-Yugoslav countries are not. Please check your facts before posting something about us backward barbarians.



Again, the Nazi party won 20% of the votes in your precious and enlightened EU (Hungary). Please do not mix us with Nazis.

So if you think that normal states should intervene in places that are civilized like the Middle east, instead of uncivilized places like EU member states it is OK by me.

But Macedonia and Serbia have not voted Nazis, did not organize pogroms and did not deport those poor misunderstood people. We just build schools in Macedonia and in Serbia they just build apartment blocks, which those poor people dismantled and sold for scrap. They have, and still are refusing to change their lifestyle.

As I said, I divide them in 2 groups:
Roma - work, send kids to school, have papers, do not steal or beg (even sometimes pay taxes)
Gypsy - does not work, steals, sends kids to beg and pickpocket and so on.

Same language, ethnicity, looks..............but different lifestyles. There are whole villages of Roma in Serbia where they are farmers, like other non Roma farmers and live normal honest lives.

I apologize for not being more clear in my post. I never meant to suggest that I held Hungary and their actions in this story (including their Nazi's) in such high regard, in fact I had meant to lump them together with the Balkan states as they had been referred to earlier in this thread and much of my criticism was aimed at them.

There are varying definitions of what the "Balkans" comprises, and I realize they might not fit your strict definition. I'm sorry to say but I was using it in the derogatory sense which is a little more widely encompassing.

That's nice that you so neatly and clearly divide the Roma into 2 groups (one being a common slur for Roma) so you can avoid being called prejudiced against an entire people. We tried that exact same thing here in America with black people too but unfortunately it didn't fool many people. I wish you better luck than we had in hiding your racism from others and justifying their state sanctioned oppression.

[Dalarna3]

Well, to be honest the foreign workers were full of enthusiasm when they came at first. But harsh realities on the ground made them see that it is not easy to help people who do not want to be helped.



Actually, there is relatively few violent attacks on Roma in ex-Yugoslav states. The leader in violence and killings of Roma is a European Union country - Hungary so please check your facts before accusing us.
We are bloodthirsty maniacs only to ourselves.

And Roma people have their own TV channels, newspapers, radio, Parliamentary members (at least in Macedonia and Serbia) and go to schools to study.

Gypsies do not. They live their specific way of life, have no papers and cross borders whenever they want. They live by begging and stealing. The lady that cleans at my place is Roma. She works for her pay, her husband also (he is a taxi driver) and they send their kids to school, English class and computer class. Sometimes with beatings as the kids are constantly mocked by Gypsy kids who live a carefree life of begging and stealing and without homework.



Again, the leader in Roma hate attacks is EU country, the leader in Roma deportation is well respected and enlightened and freedom loving EU country (France), ex-Yugoslav countries are not. Please check your facts before posting something about us backward barbarians.



Again, the Nazi party won 20% of the votes in your precious and enlightened EU (Hungary). Please do not mix us with Nazis.

So if you think that normal states should intervene in places that are civilized like the Middle east, instead of uncivilized places like EU member states it is OK by me.

But Macedonia and Serbia have not voted Nazis, did not organize pogroms and did not deport those poor misunderstood people. We just build schools in Macedonia and in Serbia they just build apartment blocks, which those poor people dismantled and sold for scrap. They have, and still are refusing to change their lifestyle.

As I said, I divide them in 2 groups:
Roma - work, send kids to school, have papers, do not steal or beg (even sometimes pay taxes)
Gypsy - does not work, steals, sends kids to beg and pickpocket and so on.

Same language, ethnicity, looks..............but different lifestyles. There are whole villages of Roma in Serbia where they are farmers, like other non Roma farmers and live normal honest lives.

And so you would get rid of the Gypsies? If they have the "Same language, ethnicity, looks" how the hell do you tell them apart on a national scale?

[clandestino]

Good Lord, and Serbia got bashed recently by AI because Belgrade authorities had to remove Gypsy carton-board favela under the bridge because the bridge had to be repaired first time after 40 years and it wasn't possible with people ( needless to say but completely illegal ) living under it. The removed Gypsies even got some kind of houses ( many of them sold them immediately as they got them ) and even apartments in place of their carton-boxes which is actually quite frustrating thing concerning the fact how many people in Belgrade and Serbia can't afford their own apartments and live in terrible conditions. But nevertheless AI still found something to nag about, I can't imagine what would happen if something like this thing in Hungary happened here, we'll be crucified.

[Oklop]

I can't imagine what would happen if something like this thing in Hungary happened here, we'll be crucified.

Or bombed again.

[clandestino]

They're to busy with Libya right now, otherwise they wouldn't hesitate much...

[Gromovnik]

Well, some of us still live. And that's incredibely racist and evil.

[Astor]

If Hungray is a democracy, and Jobbik legally got 20% of the vote without any tampering or fixing than who the hell are any of you to demand something be done?
That's the party a large segment of the population voted for, so deal with it.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

If Hungray is a democracy, and Jobbik legally got 20% of the vote without any tampering or fixing than who the hell are any of you to demand something be done?
That's the party a large segment of the population voted for, so deal with it.

oh it's fine until that large segement of the population thinks it can attack another large segment of hte population.