Impressions From The Battlefield

[benczeb90]

Oh crap. Fist the Angli, now the Guened... Is this a short campaign?

[Theramines]

It's the long campaign. Ebrauc faded pretty early in this campaign for some reason. I guess Guened got on a roll. I've got a diplomat hanging around the north so I'll try to bribe the Ystrad Clut, who are also quite strong, to attack, while I launch an offensive via Aquae Sulis.

[benczeb90]

I've never bribed anyone. How much is needed to bribe a faction which is neutral to your target to make it attack your target?

[Theramines]

Honestly don't know. I've tried it in M2TW, but I can't be sure if it has ever succeeded. I'm thinking tens of thousands. It's out of the question now because I'm broke: damned Angli have thrown the works at me.

[Obeseian]

from what iv seen geuned may be advantaged were they lack any scripted diplomacy so they are able to vassalise there enemies.

[Riothamus]

Honestly don't know. I've tried it in M2TW, but I can't be sure if it has ever succeeded. I'm thinking tens of thousands. It's out of the question now because I'm broke: damned Angli have thrown the works at me.

There is something to know here that is very important. As the Germanic tribes expand westward they encounter a scripted culture penalty so they may have a great difficulty holding a settlement they capture from you. This is more prevalent for the Angli faction as they are based further North and westward than the Saxon and Jutes. Im working a marathon of shifts so hopefully tonight I can get to a few more questions

[Theramines]

I've been playing Mumhan the past couple of days (H/H). Tough campaign! Connacht collapsed pretty quickly to Ui Neill, then Ui Neill invaded my kingdom. And it was brutal. The fighting swung back and forth with settlements captured, lost, recaptured all along the border. A swathe of depopulated, devastated settlements marked the ferocity of the war. Both factions' populations went into decline. But, it was a stalemate. Mumhan hadn't the strength to exploit its victories, while Ui Neill couldn't quite finish off Mumhan.

Their Gaelic Sea Wolves units are nuts: they swing round the flanks and then hurl themselves into battle like kamikaze bombers, and almost always fight to the last man while taking as many as possible down with them. I dreaded any battle when there were any of them in the enemy stack.

At one stage I thought I'd got the upper hand when I sent a half-stack on ship to take and plunder Ui Neill settlements up north. Success! But I soon lost or abandoned the settlements and the money eventually ran out.

Slowly Ui Neill got the upper hand. Mumhan was several thousand in debt. The last half-stack had been scraped together from garrison units and merged units to rebuild the field army after a bloody heroic victory, which had cost 50% casualties. There was no money and these were the last reserves. Seriously, there was one settlement garrisoned with a single man. No, not a unit; a single, lonely Mercenary Infantry dude (cheapest garrison ever).

Out of nowhere a Ui Neill princess toddled along and offered to end the war if we'd become vassals. Sure!

Since then there's been ten years of peace and Mumhan's completely recovered. I've found that any surplus in the treasury over c. 25,000 goes straight to Ui Neill, so I guess that's the cost of vassalage.

[Riothamus]

I've been playing Mumhan the past couple of days (H/H). Tough campaign! Connacht collapsed pretty quickly to Ui Neill, then Ui Neill invaded my kingdom. And it was brutal. The fighting swung back and forth with settlements captured, lost, recaptured all along the border. A swathe of depopulated, devastated settlements marked the ferocity of the war. Both factions' populations went into decline. But, it was a stalemate. Mumhan hadn't the strength to exploit its victories, while Ui Neill couldn't quite finish off Mumhan.

Their Gaelic Sea Wolves units are nuts: they swing round the flanks and then hurl themselves into battle like kamikaze bombers, and almost always fight to the last man while taking as many as possible down with them. I dreaded any battle when there were any of them in the enemy stack.

At one stage I thought I'd got the upper hand when I sent a half-stack on ship to take and plunder Ui Neill settlements up north. Success! But I soon lost or abandoned the settlements and the money eventually ran out.

Slowly Ui Neill got the upper hand. Mumhan was several thousand in debt. The last half-stack had been scraped together from garrison units and merged units to rebuild the field army after a bloody heroic victory, which had cost 50% casualties. There was no money and these were the last reserves. Seriously, there was one settlement garrisoned with a single man. No, not a unit; a single, lonely Mercenary Infantry dude (cheapest garrison ever).

Out of nowhere a Ui Neill princess toddled along and offered to end the war if we'd become vassals. Sure!

Since then there's been ten years of peace and Mumhan's completely recovered. I've found that any surplus in the treasury over c. 25,000 goes straight to Ui Neill, so I guess that's the cost of vassalage.

How is the Vassalege going?? hee hee

[Theramines]

The vassalage? Oh, you know, a bit quiet. I'm sure things will pick up when I callously restart the war in my own sweet time. Meantime I sent a plague-infected spy to visit a few tourist attractions in the Ui Neill settlements. Nice, orderly settlements they've got there. Shame about all the dead people lying in the streets.

[Riothamus]

The vassalage? Oh, you know, a bit quiet. I'm sure things will pick up when I callously restart the war in my own sweet time. Meantime I sent a plague-infected spy to visit a few tourist attractions in the Ui Neill settlements. Nice, orderly settlements they've got there. Shame about all the dead people lying in the streets.

Ohhhh so good to be king!

[midnite]

I've been playing Mumhan the past couple of days (H/H). Tough campaign! Connacht collapsed pretty quickly to Ui Neill, then Ui Neill invaded my kingdom. And it was brutal. The fighting swung back and forth with settlements captured, lost, recaptured all along the border. A swathe of depopulated, devastated settlements marked the ferocity of the war.

Their Gaelic Sea Wolves units are nuts: they swing round the flanks and then hurl themselves into battle like kamikaze bombers, and almost always fight to the last man while taking as many as possible down with them. I dreaded any battle when there were any of them in the enemy stack.

The last half-stack had been scraped together from garrison units and merged units to rebuild the field army after a bloody heroic victory, which had cost 50% casualties. There was no money and these were the last reserves. Seriously, there was one settlement garrisoned with a single man. No, not a unit; a single, lonely Mercenary Infantry dude (cheapest garrison ever).

.

This is wonderful to hear! The human player cannot just roll over the AI controlled factions. !!!

Wonderful. The human player is afraid of the AI while fighting battles.

[Theramines]

Indeed, Midnite, I might say that playing Mumhan or Connacht might well be the two toughest campaigns of the mod, provided there are no truces. Concilium is probably still the toughest overall because of the scripted enmity.

[benczeb90]

Some more things i noticed:

Marchomawr Ebrauc's charge is rather crap compared to the Teulu's and other mounted bodyguards'. I rammed the back of some Fleet Sailors and waited for them to take casualties. Waited...waited...one...two...and one ME down...FFFUUU, GO BACK.....let's charge another day...

Rome (DoS) HARDLY use any cavalry. 90% of its armies are the same. = Boring. Levy Inf, Limitanei, Auxilia C., Levy Bowmen.

Once my ally AI threw ALL the Levy Bowmen to melee fight against troops on foot. The enemy had no cavalry, but they chose not to run away.

[Riothamus]

Some more things i noticed:

Marchomawr Ebrauc's charge is rather crap compared to the Teulu's and other mounted bodyguards'. I rammed the back of some Fleet Sailors and waited for them to take casualties. Waited...waited...one...two...and one ME down...FFFUUU, GO BACK.....let's charge another day...

Rome (DoS) HARDLY use any cavalry. 90% of its armies are the same. = Boring. Levy Inf, Limitanei, Auxilia C., Levy Bowmen.

Once my ally AI threw ALL the Levy Bowmen to melee fight against troops on foot. The enemy had no cavalry, but they chose not to run away.

Marchomawr Ebrauc:
stat_pri 28, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 150, 1
;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 24, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 300, 1
;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr ap

The ten is the stat charge and its the same stats as the other faction stats I'm no sure why this would happen..
The AI can be a bit of a tart so guess this could happen but it does surprise me if that what your running into a lot.. Others come across this? Need input

[Theramines]

In my Frank campaign (h/h) the DoS often use armies as described by benczeb90, but not always. There were a couple of major battles against balanced stacks early in the campaign, then a few against those all-infantry stacks. Latterly (470s), a few legio comitenses have appeared in the mix, but no cavalry.

On the other hand, fought one battle against two detachments of 4 or 5 cavalry units each (promoti and auxilia), with only a couple of foot auxilia in each detachment.

Have only fought them occasionally because I keep paying big money for peace treaties after a few battles (they destroyed Llydaw and now they're a scary super-power). They've recently been constantly at war with the Alemannen and have been broke for at least a decade and their army is gradually diminishing (according to the graphs). I'll report the composition of their armies after they have some money again.

[Theramines]

I rammed the back of some Fleet Sailors and waited for them to take casualties

I've found charging skirmishers and archers in general a bit troublesome in this mod, especially fleet sailors. Also hundradeflocc too, strangely. When they're spread out and moving around, perhaps 50-60% of the charges knock people over and cause mayhem, but otherwise the cavalry just get enmeshed in melee to little effect. Frustrating.

It's not so bad later in the battle when they're diminished by tiredness or casualties; then they're easy meat.

I can't say whether it's any particular cavalry unit that fails to charge home.

[benczeb90]

Sorry i was a bit mad yesterday. Battles are NOT boring to say the least.
And i must revise other things as well:

The generated all-the same armies are not quite all the same every time. Last time i had a battle where there were Legio Comitatenses x2 , German Auxilia Inf (the missile throwers), Sagittari Graves and several Cav.Light Auxilia, no Promoti. Maybe it wasn't a script army. The generated armies usually have Auxilia too beside the ones i've mentioned yesterday.

The massacre of levy bowmen happened to me (lately) only once. I don't use allies in battles if i can avoid it, if i think i can win without them.

+I've said before, months ago, that the levy archers (?) of Dal Riata are CRAPPY. Compared to the same type of archers of for example the Romans or RB. But i think DR is not the only faction having very weak kill performance. The difference is quite astonishing: ~30 kills vs ~230 at the end of a bigger battle. But i have to make sure. I'm with Ebrauc now, and only played just a few battles so far (seems a very good faction), while i'm at war with the uber military Romans, playing as the Franks. H/H hotseat.

[Riothamus]

Sorry i was a bit mad yesterday. Battles are NOT boring to say the least.
And i must revise other things as well:

The generated all-the same armies are not quite all the same every time. Last time i had a battle where there were Legio Comitatenses x2 , German Auxilia Inf (the missile throwers), Sagittari Graves and several Cav.Light Auxilia, no Promoti. Maybe it wasn't a script army. The generated armies usually have Auxilia too beside the ones i've mentioned yesterday.

The massacre of levy bowmen happened to me (lately) only once. I don't use allies in battles if i can avoid it, if i think i can win without them.

+I've said before, months ago, that the levy archers (?) of Dal Riata are CRAPPY. Compared to the same type of archers of for example the Romans or RB. But i think DR is not the only faction having very weak kill performance. The difference is quite astonishing: ~30 kills vs ~230 at the end of a bigger battle. But i have to make sure. I'm with Ebrauc now, and only played just a few battles so far (seems a very good faction), while i'm at war with the uber military Romans, playing as the Franks. H/H hotseat.

I'm curious if playing by hotseat is accurate. I know when I test the game by hotseat I do not play a faction for it will disrupt the AI to act and perform accurately...unless you are playing vs another local player via hotseat? It might give you advantages as the computer might be playing you as both AI ad local player. The Gaelic archers are meant to be crappy. in no way are they suppose to compare with the other factions. Especially the Romans. Just an observation Benzceb..


The use of cavalry(light and heavy) can be a difficult thing to perform. Tactics require good infantry to be engaged while cavalry times its charges and its withdraws until it can create a whole and disrupt the unity(or break) of that infantry. A very difficult maneuver and only perfected by a able commander. It wasn't a common tactic to engage infantry in melee.. possibly suicidal unless your in a desperate situation

[rhalina]

The ten is the stat charge and its the same stats as the other faction stats I'm no sure why this would happen..
The AI can be a bit of a tart so guess this could happen but it does surprise me if that what your running into a lot.. Others come across this? Need input

I noticed the same thing, but inversed and even with changes in stats, concerning the bucellary cav and the pictish generals: horrible usefull charges in regards of the reste of the cavalry..
Some ghost of war in the game, perhaps?^^

[benczeb90]

The other bodyguard cavalry are indeed very good. But i need more playing so i will report later in this matter.