Ninjas are useless.

[YassirX]

I've tested Ninja builds in 14k battles (as this is the only fund-combination where they can be used effectively). Non-Vet Ninjas without flashgrenade cost 665 (with -5% retainer), fielding two of them would cost the same as a fire rocket unit. The problem is that Ninjas do most of their damage trough their grenades, which they can throw two times. I've attack a General with "4" Ninjas from behind and he survived the first grenade volley, this explains their precision.... Ninjas could be useful in combination with flashgrenade when they are placed right before your army line causing enemy units to lose 10 melee attack. They could also ambush the enemy archers, cause they are most of the time unguarded.

I've made about 10 battles with ninja builds. I found 2 Ninjas in the army to be pretty useless and a waste of money. They are good for a early taking of the tactical buildings but afterwards they will not inflict much damage to the enemy line as this line is mainly spreaded. A Grenade volley normally kills about 30-40 men. A Fire-Rocket for the same price as two ninjas can inflict much more damage and can snipe the enemy general much better.

Altough the spotting range is way to high, when the special ability is not used when going near to the enemy units, they will spot you from 20m distance. Thats why you will hardly be able to throw a second volley of grenades as they will be visible after the first volley and most likely will be ambushed.

4 Ninjas in a army is a pretty heavy ninja build, its making you fragile to cavalary builds. When your ninjas will fail in their ambush you will most likely lose to any army composition as you will lack the forces to counter the attack. Anyway, ambushing with 4 ninjas is pretty effective. You can attack from all windsides making your enemy to be overthrown with the task to react. Most likely at least two of your ninjas will be able to throw two volleys and tough will inflict major damage to the enemy army.

...but there are much easier ways to win a battle. Ninja builds are not effective, expecially not against good players who expect a suprise attack. Ninjas are useless, thats why I not field them anymore. What about you?

[VersionLangley]

We work out a 3v3 build where one guy get all ninja, one get all cav and bum rush one of the opponent's side player (ninjas in the back of the cav player's opponent) The middle team player will try to hold as much of the opponent middle player as well as the third opponent coming from the other side. Most of the time, the rushed opponent is gearing up to face an all cav army won't be prepared for the ninja coming from the back quite quickly. If we can finish the rush in 3-4 mins, the middle team player should still be standing.

Of course it never work more than once against a team but it a fun strat if everything is timed right ^^;

[StormtrooperDan]

We work out a 3v3 build where one guy get all ninja, one get all cav and bum rush one of the opponent's side player (ninjas in the back of the cav player's opponent) The middle team player will try to hold as much of the opponent middle player as well as the third opponent coming from the other side. Most of the time, the rushed opponent is gearing up to face an all cav army won't be prepared for the ninja coming from the back quite quickly. If we can finish the rush in 3-4 mins, the middle team player should still be standing.

Of course it never work more than once against a team but it a fun strat if everything is timed right ^^;

Interesting

Muahahaha!

[Ptealixpaint]

I have only recently started using ninjas, and I would say they aren't that bad if used properly. I actually haven't used smoke bombs yet, even without them they are good. One thing I've discovered is they get sword retainer bonuses, so to make use of that I pair them with katana
Heavy armies (im lvl9 so I use trade post, ninja jounin, +2 sword attack +3 sword defense).

I've been doing an army that is made up of ninja, katana samurai, and yari cav... That's all. I deploy ninjas on flanks and position them, but don't engage till the katana have charged. I engage enemy cav with Yari. Note that a ninja massacres a yari cav unit in standin melee, so if you can engage yari v yari near a hidden ninja unit you win that battle easily.

Once the melee has started my bow general, yari cav and ninja give a great chance at killing their general. At the least ninja toss their bombs and flank, a katana samurai/ninja sandwich with retainer bonuses destroys anything.

[StormtrooperDan]

I have only recently started using ninjas, and I would say they aren't that bad if used properly. I actually haven't used smoke bombs yet, even without them they are good. One thing I've discovered is they get sword retainer bonuses, so to make use of that I pair them with katana
Heavy armies (im lvl9 so I use trade post, ninja jounin, +2 sword attack +3 sword defense).

I've been doing an army that is made up of ninja, katana samurai, and yari cav... That's all. I deploy ninjas on flanks and position them, but don't engage till the katana have charged. I engage enemy cav with Yari. Note that a ninja massacres a yari cav unit in standin melee, so if you can engage yari v yari near a hidden ninja unit you win that battle easily.

Once the melee has started my bow general, yari cav and ninja give a great chance at killing their general. At the least ninja toss their bombs and flank, a katana samurai/ninja sandwich with retainer bonuses destroys anything.

I like your ideas. If I switched out my ranged units for ninjas, I could easily afford like 6 of them. I'll probably have to toss two cavalry to the slaughter though so that my infantry line can get to the enemy mostly unharmed.

[Cavalyn]

Dont take them for key buildings. Just dont.

Just taje light cav and dismount them, but seriously, try taking them for the actual fight!! keep them with your army, march with them, fight with them. And wherever a section of your battleline is losing, toss some bombs in. They are incredible, but everyone seems bloody obsessed with leaving them stranded on the battlefield in front of cavalry.

You dont HAVE to use that Kisho training guys... They dont HAVE to deploy out of your deployment zone .... Just think of them as a katana samurai unit that has bombs, and can hide in plain sight... Dont do anything with them you wouldn't do with a normal katana unit, except that these guys can also negate an enemy's archer advantage, and/or severely debuff their battle line.

[Celmeo]

We work out a 3v3 build where one guy get all ninja, one get all cav and bum rush one of the opponent's side player (ninjas in the back of the cav player's opponent) The middle team player will try to hold as much of the opponent middle player as well as the third opponent coming from the other side. Most of the time, the rushed opponent is gearing up to face an all cav army won't be prepared for the ninja coming from the back quite quickly. If we can finish the rush in 3-4 mins, the middle team player should still be standing.

Of course it never work more than once against a team but it a fun strat if everything is timed right ^^;

This sounds exactly like one of the games I played with all cav. I was sure we were going to loss with such unconventional armies, but the ninja army won the game for us. Had a complete new respect for ninjas ever since.

[Alnanaz]

their not useless.
just have to use em right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kThwb...el_video_title

[sabresandiego]

In 1on1 Ninja do seem to suck overall.

[Cavalyn]

I think you may be missing the point of Ninja, for a start, you do not HAVE to deploy them with Kisho training. It's a handy ability, but if you had a single katana samurai that could be deplyed anywhere, you wouldn't separate him from your general. Why do it for the ninja?

Have you tried keeping them with your force? In that regard then can hurl smoke bombs before a charge, lowering the melee attack of the enemy by 10! Alternatively they can stealth forwards and smoke the archers before you charge, lowering accuracy by i think 50? Then once the battle lines are engaged they can throw grenades in, or charge in where needed.

Even in an assassination role, it's best to wait until the lines are engaged. The shock of losing a general wears out over time, so sending your ninja charging in during the first minute of a game is worthless, even if the enemy general dies.

Ninja are reasonably priced, stats higher than katana samurai, and come with the stealth ability and bombs, and at lvl 1, smoke bombs... For the same price as a Katana or Naginata samurai! The ONLY disadvantage, is that there are less of them in a unit, but even then with proper support, or smoke bombs, they will rout a katana unit on their own.

As for people who worry about losing a retainer slot, their utility far outweighs any single retainer, if used properly. Smoke bombs lowers melee attack by 10, accuracy by 50+ and I believe melee defence and/or movement speed. Also their bombs count as artillery, toss them into a melee fight, and the panic to their side will be huge! No matter what it is you're fighting, they will start wavering...

They are also perfect for taking down matchlock units which try and hide behind their lines shooting into melee. Your movement speed is huge.


P.s. In response to your first quote, i do not believe most of their damage is done by grenades. A ninja's melee attack is huge, as is their defence, and they can easily rout units more than twice their size. Seeing as you have stealth, which i will add, lowers the spotting distance by a multiplier 0.2 (as well as increasing melee attack). So that's 4 metres away! (Keep in mind if you click attack, i.e. they start a charge animation, or you throw bombs, you will be revealed. Try running REALLY close, then clicking to attack.)

[KushHaze]

I have been thinking about using ninjas in battles with key buildings, forgive my ignorance as I have never used them outside custom AI battles but if they can cap points then you could just plop them right on the point before the battle even starts couldnt you?

[StormtrooperDan]

I've tested Ninja builds in 14k battles (as this is the only fund-combination where they can be used effectively). Non-Vet Ninjas without flashgrenade cost 665 (with -5% retainer), fielding two of them would cost the same as a fire rocket unit. The problem is that Ninjas do most of their damage trough their grenades, which they can throw two times. I've attack a General with "4" Ninjas from behind and he survived the first grenade volley, this explains their precision.... Ninjas could be useful in combination with flashgrenade when they are placed right before your army line causing enemy units to lose 10 melee attack. They could also ambush the enemy archers, cause they are most of the time unguarded.

I've made about 10 battles with ninja builds. I found 2 Ninjas in the army to be pretty useless and a waste of money. They are good for a early taking of the tactical buildings but afterwards they will not inflict much damage to the enemy line as this line is mainly spreaded. A Grenade volley normally kills about 30-40 men. A Fire-Rocket for the same price as two ninjas can inflict much more damage and can snipe the enemy general much better.

Altough the spotting range is way to high, when the special ability is not used when going near to the enemy units, they will spot you from 20m distance. Thats why you will hardly be able to throw a second volley of grenades as they will be visible after the first volley and most likely will be ambushed.

4 Ninjas in a army is a pretty heavy ninja build, its making you fragile to cavalary builds. When your ninjas will fail in their ambush you will most likely lose to any army composition as you will lack the forces to counter the attack. Anyway, ambushing with 4 ninjas is pretty effective. You can attack from all windsides making your enemy to be overthrown with the task to react. Most likely at least two of your ninjas will be able to throw two volleys and tough will inflict major damage to the enemy army.

...but there are much easier ways to win a battle. Ninja builds are not effective, expecially not against good players who expect a suprise attack. Ninjas are useless, thats why I not field them anymore. What about you?

I used to have two in my games for a little while, but they were usefully only about a third of the time. They can be used to capture dojos, but a yari ashigaru can do it safer and at half the price. When I position the ninja behind to kill the enemy general, a lot of the times the fighting happens way before my ninja gets into position. And the few times my ninjas got off their bombs only like 1-2 bodyguards died from the attack. I've only tried with 2 ninjas to assassinate the general, but if 4 ninjas doesn't kill with the first bomb throw, then I don't know if it is worth it to risked so much money. One time my ninjas got lucky and ambushed some archers in the forests, but any old sword unit could have done the same.

The only effective use of Ninja I've seen is from VersionLangley, where he had a ninja behind his infantry lines that tossed smoke bombs first, then sniped my general that was in Stand&Fight.

[Ultraman]

Well, I've had them used to good effect against me during a siege. I was defending, and not until pretty late into the game did I notice two quick blips on the minimap. Before I knew it they were in the central part of my fort wreaking havoc. If it had been them alone I probably could have handled it, but he timed it well with his surge of wall climbing katanas and it was just slightly too much for me to handle.

[Elta]

Two days ago one of my opponents used 4 ninjas and deployed behind me. I saw them using my Shinobi informer and my light cav made short work of finding them and finishing them despite the fact that they were invisible.

So, just throwing this out there - if you use ninjas deployed away from their lines, you must use the metskue retainer.

[turdles]

I think they would be more worth it if they didn't require a retainer, I'm really not sure why that is at all necessary.

[Pyramid Head]

Replays will be appreciated.

[Drifta]

ninjas were very powerful in the original shogun online, i took out so many generals with them it was not funny, i believe most haven't pin-pointed the exact way to use them yet i think..

they can create mayhem when the battle is joined i daresay, they could turn a flank and therefore a battle, or try sprinting them in on stealth on a general in stand and fight

anticipation is the key, try deploying them in a spot where u know the enemy army will march past or line up for battle, throw a diversion out the other side and bingo, perfect assassination

[Haru]

Wow that was pretty nice, is that your page?

[Alnanaz]

Yes it is my youtube page =)

[Mosc]

Link below is a thread about using ninja's. Take a look to get some ideas.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=446457