Hannibal and the Seleucids

[TTRouble]

DVk/Tone,

Guys just wondering if this is possible or not :

1. If Carthage is defeated in the game or say losses all of its territory in the game other than those on the african coast inc Carthage, would it be possible to have Hannibal appear in Anticoh, thats if he's survived that far into the game ?

2. If its possible to do, I'm wondering if he would be just an advisor to the King, commander of a fleet or making him a General ?

"The influence of Hannibal at the Seleucid court was, of course, thrown into the scale of war.
He saw a prospect of matching himself once more with the hated oppressor of his race, of renewing that struggle which had so nearly ended fatally for Rome. It is said that he began to urge upon Antiochus a plan of campaign, of which the outlines were that he should take himself 100 ships of war, 10,000 foot and 1000 horse, and with these effect a landing in Italy, while the King should simultaneously invade Greece, and Carthage should rise in rebellion. No telling blow—on this he insisted—could be dealt Rome so long as her base was secure; only when the adversary wrested to himself those resources which Italy yielded her could Rome be really straitened. And who was there that knew the ground in Italy so well as the framer of this plan? "

TTrouble

[chris10]

DVk/Tone,

Guys just wondering if this is possible or not :

1. If Carthage is defeated in the game or say losses all of its territory in the game other than those on the african coast inc Carthage, would it be possible to have Hannibal appear in Anticoh, thats if he's survived that far into the game ?

2. If its possible to do, I'm wondering if he would be just an advisor to the King, commander of a fleet or making him a General ?

TTrouble

The person/character is impossible to implement afterwards as scripted characters will cause clone CTD but Hannibal could be done as an Ancillary obtained by the Seleucid Faction Leader after the Carthage Faction has been destroyed...the script command/trigger is not that complicated and rather simple and would assure that the Ancillary would not pop up during the entire game as it is unique and only given by script, however...due to the need of knowing the name of the general the ancillary is given to, it could go only to Seleucid Family Members already alive at the start of the game...I could write a trigger for each family member (including those minor of age) with their name and once Carthage is destroyed and Antiochus xxxx is Faction leader he would get Ancillary "Hannibal" ..now that Iam thinking about it, it is really cooool...it could be a nice easter egg dvk/tone...
I think it can work...somebody has to make the ancillary then...maybe Hannibals Portrait from the game,something like that...

[TTRouble]

Hi Chris

Thanks for the speedy reply .. its been in my head the last few days and I thought it would be really cool if it could be done in some form. Also once he shows up and appears as an Ancillary that it gives a bonus fighting against Rome even if its just a small one. I'm not sure what else you could add .. perhaps an increase in the lands that once belonged to Carthage to rebel against Rome or whoever is the ruler at the time, should the Seleucids expand west into Africa ?


Cheers

TTrouble

[chris10]

The Ancillary has to be made, placed in the corresponding folder and implemented into the game with some dummy triggers to get the game working...then a campaign has to be brought to 1-2 turns before Carthage destroyed (cheating?) and then the script triggers can be copypasted into the backgroundscript (they are savegamecompatible)..then destroying Carthage and well...having a look if the Seleucid Faction Leader gets the ancillary...

I can write the script but for testing and making the ancillary I dont have enough time Iam afraid...
If you can make the ancillary TTrouble maybe dvk can spend a moment to do a dummy trigger and place the stuff into the files...if its not working in the end it wont harm as there is no real trigger for this ancillary...

To have that clear...this should only be implemented into the Roman Campaigns as the Player will surely destroy Carthage within a timeframe where possibly starting characters from the Seleucid Family are still alive

The problem with making him an ancillary is that theoretically, the player could then make him live forever. Not in favor of that.

what do you mean ? The ancillary shall only have a dummy trigger and can only be given by script...this assures that its given only once just in the moment
monitor_event faction_leader destroyed_faction etc etc
People who know how to do things can theoretically do anything anyway,cant they ?

[dvk901]

The problem with making him an ancillary is that theoretically, the player could then make him live forever. Not in favor of that.

[rory o'kane]

The point that DVK was making is that you can keep switching him from general to general keeping him (in theory) alive forever!

[chris10]

The point that DVK was making is that you can keep switching him from general to general keeping him (in theory) alive forever!

An ancillary can hardly called "Be alive"..and in theory anybody can do this anyway when looking at Squids ancillarys guide so I fail to see the point...and I repeat...this should be an easter egg for the roman campaign and the ancillary would be restricited to Seleucid Faction so I ask myself who would be interested to pass this ancillary from general to general forever when it offers only small benefits ? ...and if so,what ?....people are using the command console anyway...
My thought was merely about the laugh it would cause when people look at Seleucid Faction Leader and find Hannibal as advisor (ancillary)... this sort of detail is remembered...I had not bothered one second with the thought people could cheat him "alive" by passing the ancillary via console to others...I dont care...they do that with any other trait/ancillary anyway and campaigns will become unhistorical anyway from a certain point on...

[dvk901]

Well, you do make a valid point......I haven't given a lot of thought to people cheating when it comes to something historical.....I mean that in the sense of, "I didn't AVOID doing something just because someone might cheat." Hannibal, should, in 'theory', die with the guy who gains him.

[chris10]

Well, you do make a valid point......I haven't given a lot of thought to people cheating when it comes to something historical.....I mean that in the sense of, "I didn't AVOID doing something just because someone might cheat." Hannibal, should, in 'theory', die with the guy who gains him.

True...thats why I suggested to make only a dummy trigger so that his Ancillary can only be gained/given by script/console command and restrict it to Seleucid Faction while I would try to get the Ancillary given to the Seleucid Faction Leader the moment Carthage is destroyed...hold on...thats very far away from history...we could make Hannibal appear as Ancillary after a few ingame years, Players will have killed him by then and it would be closer to the historical facts ...not 100% but well...

If people later do weird stuff with the Ancillary..well...there are always people doin all kind of hilarious things to their campaigns but as he is no help in a sense of "exploit" to the players advanage I dont see him maintained "alive" by anybody...
Its just a tiny litte detail , nothing of major importance to the game, the mod or our lifes but nevertheless we should have a final word on this now...do we do it or do we not do it ?

[Rex Basiliscus]

But then, why not do it in all campaigns? Not just for the Roman one... I mean Hannibal dies in most of the cases in the first couple of years, so in theory he would be "available" for Antiochus very soon (if you don't count the years he spent in Carthage right before and after Zama). But as chris says make it only available through the script... possibly if Antiochus dies, then Hannibal might "go" to the Armenian and later Bithinian king?

[chris10]

But then, why not do it in all campaigns? Not just for the Roman one... I mean Hannibal dies in most of the cases in the first couple of years, so in theory he would be "available" for Antiochus very soon (if you don't count the years he spent in Carthage right before and after Zama). But as chris says make it only available through the script... possibly if Antiochus dies, then Hannibal might "go" to the Armenian and later Bithinian king?

Rex...ther is no check for certain characters to be dead or alive...giving it once to the Seleucid Faction Leader by script can be done cause we know his name and his relatives names so most likely It could work (although it still has to proove that It can) but its impossible to have a dynamic check if this or that character is alive and then keep passsing the ancillary to others in other Factions by script...for that we would need 2-3 very well thought Hannibal Ancillary triggers in the game...it maybe can be done but lets keep things simple...its just a little gag for a quick laugh...nothing worth spending hours and hours of testing...

[dvk901]

True...thats why I suggested to make only a dummy trigger so that his Ancillary can only be gained/given by script/console command and restrict it to Seleucid Faction while I would try to get the Ancillary given to the Seleucid Faction Leader the moment Carthage is destroyed...hold on...thats very far away from history...we could make Hannibal appear as Ancillary after a few ingame years, Players will have killed him by then and it would be closer to the historical facts ...not 100% but well...

If people later do weird stuff with the Ancillary..well...there are always people doin all kind of hilarious things to their campaigns but as he is no help in a sense of "exploit" to the players advanage I dont see him maintained "alive" by anybody...
Its just a tiny litte detail , nothing of major importance to the game, the mod or our lifes but nevertheless we should have a final word on this now...do we do it or do we not do it ?

There would be no need for a dummy trigger....in fact, no trigger can really BE a dummy. It either works, or you give it such wild conditionals that it can never work. However, you can assign\give a trait with a script to a character even if if it has NO trigger....but, I'm pretty sure you have to know what his name is. ????

[chris10]

There would be no need for a dummy trigger....in fact, no trigger can really BE a dummy. It either works, or you give it such wild conditionals that it can never work. However, you can assign\give a trait with a script to a character even if if it has NO trigger....but, I'm pretty sure you have to know what his name is. ????

errrr...forget about the script...I think I made a very good trigger which assures that Hannibal will only be with Seleucid Faction Leader after Rome has retaken Genoa, have passed 10 years and until Rome has taken Carthage (which will not be asap in roman campaign) so he can be with the actual King or maximum pass over to his heir in case he gets killed quickly...anyway...once Rome has Carthago the Ancillary does not trigger again in case the Seleucid Faction Leader dies...

;------------------------------------------
Trigger trigger_Hannibal
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    Condition FactionType seleucid
          and IsFactionLeader
          and I_TurnNumber > 20
          and I_SettlementOwner Genoa = romans_brutii
          and I_SettlementOwner Carthago = carthage
          and not FactionwideAncillaryExists Hannibal

    AcquireAncillary Hannibal chance 100

I made all the necessary entrys...just copypaste in their corresponding files and place ancillary...ready for test !...TTrouble where are you ?...you wanted it,now try it
However...I think nobody will ever find it as you need a high class spy next to Seleucdi faction Leader in order to see his traits/ancillarys (they are not even seen with perfect_spy)



Attachment 159739
Attachment 159740

[Rex Basiliscus]

Oh, ok

[dvk901]

I've altered the trigger a bit because it doesn't reflect what you said.

;------------------------------------------
Trigger trigger_Hannibal
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
Condition FactionType seleucid
and IsFactionLeader
and I_TurnNumber > 20
and I_TurnNumber < 70
and I_SettlementOwner Genoa = romans_brutii
and I_SettlementOwner Carthago = carthage
and not FactionwideAncillaryExists Hannibal

AcquireAncillary Hannibal chance 100

I added another 'less than' turn number condition so that after turn 70 it can never fire again. That would make him about 85 years old or so.

Pretty clever, nevertheless.

[TTRouble]

Hey Chris/DVK

Thats soo cool.. ok .. let me play around with this and I'll let you all know how it works. Will I need to kick start a Roman campaign or can I should I start a new Selecuids campaign and see if senor Hannibal appears as expected ? Will make the change the necessary ancillaries file ..

Cheers

TTrouble

[chris10]

I've altered the trigger a bit because it doesn't reflect what you said.

;------------------------------------------
Trigger trigger_Hannibal
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
Condition FactionType seleucid
and IsFactionLeader
and I_TurnNumber > 20
and I_TurnNumber < 70
and I_SettlementOwner Genoa = romans_brutii
and I_SettlementOwner Carthago = carthage
and not FactionwideAncillaryExists Hannibal

AcquireAncillary Hannibal chance 100

I added another 'less than' turn number condition so that after turn 70 it can never fire again. That would make him about 85 years old or so.

thats fine...we dont want him to become Methusalem

Hey Chris/DVK

Thats soo cool.. ok .. let me play around with this and I'll let you all know how it works. Will I need to kick start a Roman campaign or can I should I start a new Selecuids campaign and see if senor Hannibal appears as expected ? Will make the change the necessary ancillaries file ..

Cheers

TTrouble

whatever you want...

[TTRouble]

Heads up.. I started a new selecuids camp (ALx, H/H) and Hannibals shown up in Antioch after just 12 years (106SE) so definitely too early as Carthage has yet to be fully defeated. There was no announcement at the start of the new turn of Hannibal, no CTD's or anything since he showed up. Carthage is doing ok as they managed to push back the Romans in Espana.

[chris10]

Heads up.. I started a new selecuids camp (ALx, H/H) and Hannibals shown up in Antioch after just 12 years (106SE) so definitely too early as Carthage has yet to be fully defeated. No CTD or anything since he showed up.

good to see it works...
2 things...
1.
In a Seleucid Campaing there is no guarantee that Rome or anybody else will defeat Carthage at any stage..so the Trigger is more timescale-based...
2.
"After the war, Hannibal successfully ran for the office of suffete. He enacted political and financial reforms to enable the payment of the war indemnity imposed by Rome. However, Hannibal's reforms were unpopular with members of the Carthaginian aristocracy and Rome, and he fled into voluntary exile. During his exile, he lived at the Seleucid court, where he acted as military adviser to Antiochus III in his war against Rome."..

You see that when he arrived in the east Carthage was not destroyed..in fact it was destroyed about 50 years later in the 3rd Punic War (149bc-146bc)...it would not make sense to tie him to this condition as it would be a) not correct and b) gameply-wise when waiting unitl Carthage is destroyed he would appear as advisor when maybe he would be already 120 years old or he would appear never as Carthage does not get destroyed...and we dont want him to timejump either,dont we?..so he must appear around the time he really appeared...which is after turn 20 unitl maximum turn 70 ...after then he doesnt come back when the character who carrys him dies as he would be about 85 yers old...

The Hannibal conditions are as good as they can get with the Rome engine

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

If I may break in to answer that:
12 years = 22 turns > 20 turns, so it's correct
And iirc, Carthage wasn't dead yet either when Hannibal was in the SE.

edit: Darn, ninja'd