Peace Statue to be Demolished in Turkey

**Carpathian Wolf** · April 26, 2011, 04:24 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13199787

Why? This can only hurt relations in the region between Turkey and Armenian. So what is the purpose?

**Crimson Scythe** · April 26, 2011, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Carpathian Wolf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13199787

Why? This can only hurt relations in the region between Turkey and Armenian. So what is the purpose?

Nothing to do with Turkish-Armenian relations, actually.

The official reason: the monument was built without proper authorization in a protected area.

The unofficial reasons:

Erdogan didn't like the statue from an aesthetic point of view and claimed it overshadowed other historical sights, leading to the municipality's deciding to remove it to please him.
The monument was erected with permission from the former mayor of the city, who belongs to the CHP, which is the current opposition party and Erdogan's AKP's main rival.

Frankly, I'm against it being torn down because of what it symbolizes, and I don't like the chance that the unofficial reasons are shaping the official one. If nothing else, as a work of art, the rights to it belong to the artist, not the municipality.

**Ahlerich** · April 27, 2011, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Crimson Scythe

Nothing to do with Turkish-Armenian relations, actually.

The official reason: the monument was built without proper authorization in a protected area.

The unofficial reasons:

Erdogan didn't like the statue from an aesthetic point of view and claimed it overshadowed other historical sights, leading to the municipality's deciding to remove it to please him.
The monument was erected with permission from the former mayor of the city, who belongs to the CHP, which is the current opposition party and Erdogan's AKP's main rival.

yeah i dont like the holocaust memorial on concentration camps and other holocaust memorials, lets demolish them. no no, nooooooo not what you are thinking. i is pure aesthetical. i like beautyful things and i like to sing. and anyways the local nazi party never really liked the memorial either.

**jo the greek** · April 27, 2011, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by Crimson Scythe

Nothing to do with Turkish-Armenian relations, actually.

The official reason: the monument was built without proper authorization in a protected area.

The unofficial reasons:

Erdogan didn't like the statue from an aesthetic point of view and claimed it overshadowed other historical sights, leading to the municipality's deciding to remove it to please him.
The monument was erected with permission from the former mayor of the city, who belongs to the CHP, which is the current opposition party and Erdogan's AKP's main rival.

Frankly, I'm against it being torn down because of what it symbolizes, and I don't like the chance that the unofficial reasons are shaping the official one. If nothing else, as a work of art, the rights to it belong to the artist, not the municipality.

Well i think Greece can destroy a Mosque for exact the same reasons

But then no muslims go maddd!!
Or
Kemals house

I just trying to say that above arent reasons just excuses and destroying something Symbolic like that either you like or not sent messages

**Crimson Scythe** · April 27, 2011, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by jo the greek

Well i think Greece can destroy a Mosque for exact the same reasons

But then no muslims go maddd!!
Or
Kemals house

I just trying to say that above arent reasons just excuses and destroying something Symbolic like that either you like or not sent messages

Well, I suppose for the situation to be parallel, Greece would have to build a mosque first. I hear Athens is suffering from a severe lack of them...

As for Ataturk's house, given that it's part of the Turkish Consulate in Thessaloniki, I think you'd have a little trouble getting their permission to do so. But it was a nice attempt to provoke...

And finally, don't selectively read my posts. I never said that these were excuses, just the reasons given. And I think I made it quite clear that I was against its dismantling, because of the symbolism of putting up a friendship monument and then tearing it down. Most Turks are also against tearing it down, but unfortunately the bureaucrats aren't listening.

**Blaze86420** · April 27, 2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by jo the greek

Well i think Greece can destroy a Mosque for exact the same reasons

But then no muslims go maddd!!
Or
Kemals house

I just trying to say that above arent reasons just excuses and destroying something Symbolic like that either you like or not sent messages

Statue=Mosque?

**jo the greek** · April 27, 2011, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Blaze86420

Statue=Mosque?

Statue=Mosque=Symbol dude

**Blaze86420** · April 27, 2011, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by jo the greek

Statue=Mosque=Symbol dude

No, mosques are not mere symbols, they are places of worship, it would be sacrilegious to tear one down against the wishes of the worshipers who attend there. Furthermore, this issue has nothing to do with religion at all, from what I gathered this monument is supposed to represent peace between Armenia and Turkey. Islam nor Greece is relevant to this topic, no matter how badly you wish the latter to be.

And what exactly do the terms "pawned" and "villaged" mean?

**white-wolf** · April 27, 2011, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Blaze86420

Statue=Mosque?

Ask Greeks if there is a mosques at Athens.

**white-wolf** · April 27, 2011, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Mov

How about the several marvellous Churches (like Haghia Sophia) that the Turks converted to Mosques over the years? What you can't make your own Mosques, so you just steal other people's architectural masterpieces?

I think you are unfair to Great Architect Sinan and other countless great men. Do not let your hatred for Turks blinds your reasoning.

It was normal process to convert a mosque to church and a church to mosque (the biggest church/mosque in the town) in Medieval times depending on who conquers the city.

However, if you would ask the churches at Istanbul, I could able to answer you with "LOT"s of examples. I just asked if there is "ANY" mosque in Athens.

**jo the greek** · April 27, 2011, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by white-wolf

Ask Greeks if there is a mosques at Athens.

there are pawned

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ekimdusu/4067610975/
in the same level like Ana sofya and many churches turned into mosques in turkey or Museums

plus Athens when liberated was almost a villaged pawned 2 time

**Erebus Pasha** · April 27, 2011, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Mov

How about the several marvellous Churches (like Haghia Sophia) that the Turks converted to Mosques over the years? What you can't make your own Mosques, so you just steal other people's architectural masterpieces?

A bit strange of you to say this considering the Ottomans were rather well known for their beautiful architecture.

**Babur** · April 27, 2011, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Mov

How about the several marvellous Churches (like Haghia Sophia) that the Turks converted to Mosques over the years? What you can't make your own Mosques, so you just steal other people's architectural masterpieces?

What about the Blue Mosque or the Sulaimaniye Mosque?

Originally Posted by Carpathian Wolf

I think he just means the style, which the "Ottoman style" was pretty much the Byzantine one.

Anyway considering the topic, if the statue is so ugly, why not modify it rather than destroy it completely?

Sinan would have begged to differ

**Col. Tartleton** · April 26, 2011, 05:11 PM

It's rather ugly...

I say move it elsewhere or give it back to artist to do what he wants with it.

**Menelik_I** · April 26, 2011, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton

It's rather ugly...

I say move it elsewhere or give it back to artist to do what he wants with it.

Post modern art for you there

Originally Posted by TheDarkLordSeth

For those who say that it should be moved, it's huge:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The statue has nothing do with relations with Armenians. It's to do with AKP absurdity.
The permission was given by the former AKP governor of the region and the new one wants to pull it down after Erdoğan called it a "freak."
I don't see how destruction of a statue that was under construction could hurt relations with Armenia. I don't think Armenians are that easily butthurt.

You are right, probably standard ass kissing from the Governor and ''Caesar Sindrom'' from Erdogan.

**Kanaric** · April 26, 2011, 05:14 PM

When Daley took over Chicago he erased all the markings of the previous administration including dedications with their names on it. Sounds similar to this.

**selder** · April 26, 2011, 05:18 PM

why don't they just move it?

**PointOfViewGun** · April 26, 2011, 06:26 PM

For those who say that it should be moved, it's huge:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The statue has nothing do with relations with Armenians. It's to do with AKP absurdity.
The permission was given by the former AKP governor of the region and the new one wants to pull it down after Erdoğan called it a "freak."
I don't see how destruction of a statue that was under construction could hurt relations with Armenia. I don't think Armenians are that easily butthurt.

**Dr. Oza** · April 26, 2011, 06:39 PM

Yea it was on the news in Turkey a few weeks ago, Erdogan doesn't like it and he's crazy enough to influence government/municipality actions based on personal taste

**Babur** · April 26, 2011, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Sipahizade

Yea it was on the news in Turkey a few weeks ago, Erdogan doesn't like it and he's crazy enough to influence government/municipality actions based on personal taste

because he is a Padişah?