[Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.

[Majkl]

So I tried to play a bit of Moravian campaign. In order to make it a bit more enjoyable I decided to mess around some files and change names for some Moravian units and added description similar to one I posted here. Looks like success. Stats however are all over place so I might mess with them too. Perhaps I will learn something. Wish I knew how to do 2D art, so I could help a bit in this matter.

[AnthoniusII]

Make a list on the unit names you sugest.
Also please tell me where did you find the buildings UI cards to ask permision to use them.
My attempts were to use ROME1/BI buildings UI cards modified with Photoshop to create TGC's unique ones.

[Majkl]

So far I have only changed names and description of few units. Mostly those that have finished skins. Plus one generic unit which has not been reskinned to moravian theme yet. So I changed: "moravian spearman" to "kopijnici", "moravian archers" to "lukostrelci", "moravian javelinmen" to "ostepari", "moravian horsemen" (heavy cavalry) to "Kmeti" and one generic unit, not reskinned yet. It was called "moravian regular warriors" so I changed it to "axeman" and added description. I am about to write description for "heavy moravian swordsemn" and change its name to "Pesi Kmeti" and I want to change "heavy moravian spearman" into something else, did not decide name yet. I do not want to edit other units since they are not reskinned/finished yet.

I did not change any buildings UI yet. I may try it if I feel in mood but there are not many tutorials or such so I only change stuff that I can figure out on my own. Neither did I copy anything from other mods and I do not plan to but if I did I will surely ask for permission.

I noticed, that Serbia also have four or five units already done. Just like Moravia it has its basic militia roster > Suličari, javelinmen, local spearman, heavy spearman and serbian hunters. So I will try to find some books on early serbian warfare and maybe come up with some generic names and description. But it might prove to be more difficult thank I think.

[AnthoniusII]

Great Moravia will be followed Arabic rosters.
Serbia uses 100% placeholder units.
A Moravian rostser must have:
A number of units of peasant status (javelinmen, spearmen and archers or even tribal light horsemen).
A number of Proffesional units (those the live with the spoils of war and ussualy have chain mail as starting armor or atleast padded ones or heavier). The will include axemen OR swordmen , spearmen and heavy cavalry.
Atleast a unit to represent the local nobillity like Roman Aristocrats.
2-4 Palace units both on foot or on horse to represent King's personal army.
Tarkani of Bulgarian roster is such a unit.
A total number 0f 10 to 14/15 are enough.
The buildings UI cards can you tell us where you found them to ask permision to use them?

[Majkl]

I finished descriptions on Moravian units (including placeholders) and changed their recruitment model. Result looks like this.
BARRACKS CHAIN (militia infantry and missile units)
moravian archer > changed to > lukostrelci
moravian javelinmen > oštepári
moravian spearmen > kopijníci
moravian regular warriors > sekerníci
STABLES CHAIN (light and medium cavalry)
great moravian horsemene > changed to > jazdci
*at least one more light or medium melee cavalry model needs to be done, then I will create description*
ARCHERY RANGE CHAIN of buildings
no units here, it is used for experience upgrade for slavic and nomadic factions apparently
SMITHS building chain (as far as I understood, it is for professional/armored units)
heavy moravian spearman > changed to > starší kopijníci
rikote tjarlai (*placeholder unit) > zbrojnoši
peshatsi draugai (*placeholder unit) > odenci
moravian regular archers (*placeholder unit) > starší lukostrelci
DUKAL MANOR building chain (used for noblemen; but there are extra units in capital cities)
heavy moravian horsemen > changed to > kmeti
heavy moravian swordsmen > peší kmeti

Now I believe Moravia needs one more light melee cavalry and one more heavy cavalry unit. That would make 12 units roster. Which is not big but I believe it is enough. No need to have multiple units with same role. It is hard to come up with names and descriptions because in past there were not so many definitions and differences. Also, it is easier for people creating unit skins and models.

Summa summarun: If someone edit placeholder units (moravian regular archer, regular warrior, rikote tjarlai and peshatsi draugai) and then make two new models - one light cav and one heavy cavalry, I would add some description and names and moravian roster would be finished. I will add files if someone wanna take a look what changes I made.moravian WIP roster.7z

[Majkl]

I replaced church building lines for northern european culture (franks, moravians) with pictures from Barbarian Invasion. I always loved BI art style on buildings.

[AnthoniusII]

Our recruitment system relies on the each unit starting armor.
For example Scutatoi start with no body armor . They require only Baracks.
Kontaratoi require Padded Armory building + Baracks
Menaylatoi srat with chain mail armor and they require Iron smithy +Baracks
Cavalry units exept their starting armor they require Stables building as well. Just Stables.

[Majkl]

Oh, I see. That is interesting approach. I will change Moravian roster to reflect that but I need some example. Is Croatian roster 100% finished? Or maybe Bulgarian?

[AnthoniusII]

Croatia

1: Druzina upgrades with heavy lammelar-one level before cataphract (general's bodyguard) like Roman Vasilikoi Anthropoi
---------------------
Palace units: Available every 30 turns. Palace building in Capital ONLY required.
2: Pretorianes
3: Dismounted Pretorianes.
---------------------
Regional Units:
Baracks (in baracks only units created that have no armor in their start). Also Baracks are conected with Free Upakeep unit number.
4: Kopljianici => upgrade with leather tunner
5: Sulicari
6: Croatian axemen => upgrade with leather tunner
7: Strilci
Leather tunner:
8: Pedites=> upgrade with ironsmith ,=> upgrade with lammelar/heavy chainmail. (Pedites and knights could be connected with 1st norman invasion event or Ottonian one)
Ironsmith+Stables :
9: Tribal Cavalry
10: Vitezi => upgrade with heavy lammelar armor (see Pedites)
Ironsmith:
No unit.
-----------
Estates:
11: Croatian Nobles (replaced by Vitezi knights) see above.
12: Dismounted Croatian nobles (both => upgrade with heavy lammelar armor/ a lever after lammelar)
Balista maker: Balista
Catapult maker: Mangonel
Catapult maker upgrade: Onager
Ships: No naval base option. Only slavinic ship available.
Mercenaries:
Neretvani Archers
Outside their homelands they must follow the culture levy units rule.

[AnthoniusII]

Lombards have more armory depended units as example:

Lombards

1: Protospatharii Principis (general's bodyguard) like Roman Vasilikoi Anthropoi
---------------------
Palace units: Available every 30 turns. Palace building in Capital ONLY required.
2: Viri Illustres
3: Dismounted Viri Illustres (we could name them Viri Illustres Spatharii).
---------------------
Regional Units:
Baracks
4: Exercitales Minores Scutarii => upgrade with leather tunner.
5: Exersitales Minores Sagitarii (no more archery building).
6: Stables = Arimani Minores => upgrade with leather tunner.
Leather tunner:
7: Italian militias
8: Italian axemen
9: Italian Levy
Stables + Leather tunner:
10: Italian militia horsemen
Ironsmith
11: Arimanni Sequentes Scutarii => upgrade with lammelar armor
12: Arimanni Sequentes Spatharii =>upgrade with lammelar armor
Ironsmith+Stables :
13: Arimanni Maiores => upgrade with upgrade with lammelar armor
-----------
Estates:
14: Vassali
Vassali upgrade must be connected with the Ottonian or 1st Norman invasion event (actually they change shield shape and new helmets).
Balista maker: Balista
Catapult maker: Mangonel
Catapult maker upgrade: Onager
Ships: No naval base option. Only ship available Cog.
Mercenaries:
1: Early Norman knights after 1st Norman invasion in Italy event.

Outside Italy Lombards follow the culture levy units rule. BUT NO Italian Militias (we must find a way to make Italian militias exclusive to Italy). If that is possible.

Nottice that in this example Baracks + stables ONLY give some unarmored starting units.

[Majkl]

So I changed it according to mod frame you provided. *names I added are in italics

1. Družina/General's bodyguard
PALACE UNITS:
2. There are none so far. Once there is some placeholder unit or skins provided I will add description. I propose cavalry unit - called Moravania, which would represent ruling elite, smaller duces who participated on rule and were very close to ruler. They are mentioned in historical records as distinct social group. For example in time of baptism, it was written that "Rastislav together with his Moravians..." which mean ruler and his closest companions who no doubt participated in war. Other than that I have no idea what "palace units" there could be.

REGIONAL UNITS:
Barracks:
3. Moravian spearman (Kopijníci)
4. Moravian javelinmen (Oštepári) and
5. Moravian archers (Lukostrelci) are all available in barracks at 1st level.
Stables:
6. Greatmoravian horseman (Jazdci/skirmisher cavalry with no armour) are available in stables at 1st lvl.
7. Another light/medium melee cavalry skin/placeholder is needed, so I can write description and name. It would wear light chainmail and so it would be available from stables at 2nd level, which requires blacksmith. So stables + blacksmith - new medium cavalry
Smiths:
1st level - leather/padded armour
8. access to Moravian regular warriors (Sekerníci)
2nd level - chainmail
9. access to Moravian regular archers (Starší lukostrelci)
10. access to Rikote Tjarlai (placeholder) (Odenci)
3rd level - heavy chainmail
11. access to Peshatsi Draugai (placeholder) (Zbrojnoši)
12. access to Moravian heavy spearman (Starší Kopijníci)

ESTATES
13. Moravian heavy horseman (Kmeti)
14. Moravian heavy swordsman (Peší Kmeti)

I am getting used to changing this stuff so once placeholder units are finished I will revise it all make all necessary updates.

[AnthoniusII]

Remember that in estates the units that all faction produse REPRESENT THE LOCAL NOBILLITY.
Heavy horsemen can be recruited either as Palace units or as ellite regional/tribal units.
So far so good. The materal you already publiushed gives me an idea of what Rusichi adn TGC materials will be used to make the roster.

[Majkl]

Ok so I was digging in files. As far as I understood 2 leves of "estate" building chain is for local nobility, available everywhere (if you choose military over economy), third level is only in capital of faction and produce "palace units" and fourth level is only available in Constantinople and Rome. So I moved gm_heavyhorsemen and their dismounted version into "royal_palace" which is 3rd level in capital of Mikulcice. So they now serve as "palace units" and so I changed their name and description. I am also learning how to make some 2D art for buildings but it is painfully difficult. I tried to change pictures for "estates" buildings, they are not great but I think they look better than placeholders from Attila TW. If I get better one day, I may replace them too. Here is example how it looks in game.


EDIT: I made pictures by taking screenshots from document that is available online on historical webstie and I also made building icons from them. They look a little bit clunky but I hope I will get better with that in some months or years.

[AnthoniusII]

Great when you are ready use the 2 Recruitment examples to make a 10-14 max units Roster .
I asked Roar for 2d help ages ago , he responded positive but never hepled.

[Majkl]

Ok so I did proposed roster according to your format but I put it in word document because I dunno how to do it in forums.
Moravian roster.rar
EDIT: "GM_heavy_spearman" could be used as unique unit and moved from smith line building into estates instead of "lesser_druzhina" placeholder. Moravia is described as specialized in axes and spears so this could fit and it would mean one less unit to model for you. A lot of tweaks are possible, it is up to you how much work do you want to put into Moravia roster. But I would prefer smaller roster because many units fit same role anyway. Anyway, many tweaks are possible, just tell me what you think. Can even use PM.

[Majkl]

So after weeks of watching tutorials and trying, I decided today to try make simple 2D icon for dirt roads for Franks and Moravia. I think I succeded. Description picture is quite generic, however I am a little proud on that icon. Looks decent enough. Took me "only" three hours of figuring out stuff. And I think this is the simplest icon to make.

[Majkl]

I made icon for land clearence and civil focus buildings. I made distinction in way of different animals, so level 1 farms are chicken, level 2 has pig and level 3 has a cow. Gonna go back and fix estates with new icons and perhaps description pictures too. But it is hard to find some decent pictures and illustrations of any Frankish or Moravian architecture that could resemble carolingian nobleman's villa or something similar. I think it is getting better though.

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

Awesome stuff, I'm so glad to see you are progressing. I will see what images (contemporary) I can find to help you out. Any other information or images you can think of that will help?

[_TotalWar_]

Looking good

[Majkl]

@_TotalWar_ Thanks
@Antiokhos I do not think too much forward so, no idea what else I will need. For now I am trying to create estates. We will see, it is very time consuming though. :S