How to make xbows work in siege?

[RedeemerAZ]

I have had zero luck trying to get any unit of crossbowmen to work in a siege. I place them on the walls, and the will not shoot at anything, even units in front of them. Ive had massive sieges where my crossbows dont shoot anything. Only when I take them outside on the ground will they start shooting. It is extremely frustrating that my primary ranged unit is utterly useless.

I play with huge units btw, the max unit size.

[Andytheplatypus]

Only effective way to use them is like the below 2 picstures. Wait for them to get on the wall, then fire at them from as far away as possible.

[Ichon]

That works but even better is have a good melee unit in front and the crossbow on the other side of the L behind a tower. Crossbows also work well firing down into the street. So sometimes if you have alot of crossbows having a couple cavalry units to make sure square isn't captured and 4 strong melee units guarding stairs up onto the walls you can put the crossbows in a long line along wall and they will fire down into the street below. Been able to get over 150 kills per crossbow unit on large units doing that in several battles. Usually the enemy breaks before you get that many kills but it can be very effective.

Where crossbows are useless are shooting out from the wall.

[Kabeloko]

ive got this problem several times too...
as it was said before, i guess the only non complicated solution is placing them behind the wall, not on them...
ill come back if i find another way...

[The Source]

are they that accurate at firing upward,like when they are on the roads, firing enimies who are on the wall

[Andytheplatypus]

They are accurate as long as its a straight line between the person firing the weapon and the target. Otherwise they wont even shoot. Which is why they wont fire out of city walls.

[CobraStallone]

I also find this frustrating, what's wrong with these guys?

[kevindrosario]

I also find this frustrating, what's wrong with these guys?

The max angle of most arrows is 70 degrees while the max angle of crossbow bolts is 60 degrees. It's possible that if you increase the 60 to 70, they will be able to shoot over walls just as well as archers. I haven't tried it though so I'm not sure.

[k/t]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=414982

[RedeemerAZ]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=414982

That thread does not help. They are only talking about crossbows in the open field. We are talking about crossbowman on the walls in a siege

As it currently stands, you cannot place crossbowman on walls, as they will not be able to shoot at outside at all.

I have just played a game of vanilla M:TW and the crossbows work fine. This is just an issue with the Stainless Steel mod. In vanilla xbows when on the wall will do both regular shot straight forward, and volley shots.

[Gogolometro]

The man even capture a picture for you. What you not get it?
Look at a archer. You all just love archers, especially yew archers right? Test this, how much soldier you kill in long range in a arch fire sesion, and how much you kill at close range, firing straight.
If you dont get it, try like this, a crossbow unit versus a feudal knights on the wall. Look who win!
Thats is the ideea.
A good unit like pavise crossbows can kill 2 units of feudal knights. Can any archers firing in long range to do that?
Dont blame the unit, blame the lack of patience, the inability to use the traits of the unit and reluctancy to really clear suggestion what members already tryed for you.

[Yeepeep]

The man even capture a picture for you. What you not get it?
Look at a archer. You all just love archers, especially yew archers right? Test this, how much soldier you kill in long range in a arch fire sesion, and how much you kill at close range, firing straight.
If you dont get it, try like this, a crossbow unit versus a feudal knights on the wall. Look who win!
Thats is the ideea.
A good unit like pavise crossbows can kill 2 units of feudal knights. Can any archers firing in long range to do that?
Dont blame the unit, blame the lack of patience, the inability to use the traits of the unit and reluctancy to really clear suggestion what members already tryed for you.

QFT


Credit to Erunion Telcontar, the master who opened my eyes on how to survive sieges: just like Andy says but do not forget to put the crossbows/archers/javelins in guard mode and turn off skirmish. Even if the enemy engages them in melee, cancel any orders (backspace I think) and order the unit to keep firing. If they don't, repeat until. At some point they will start firing. Once you see the animation of them reloading, the wall is safe. At point-blank range, even when engaged in melee, missile units on the walls shooting along the wall win sieges. A single unit of cheap-a$$ toxotai can top 300 kills defending the wall, not shooting out.

In fact, forget about shooting out. I even cancel the fire at will and let them shoot only along the wall or in. Shooting out is a big waste of ammo imho. Also, do not let them shoot until most of the enemy unit is already on the wall. Otherwise, they'll just hit the tower or the inside of the wall.

Try also javelins. If crossbows are deadly, javelins are devastating (if you remember to conserve their ammo).

[Andytheplatypus]

That thread does not help. They are only talking about crossbows in the open field. We are talking about crossbowman on the walls in a siege

As it currently stands, you cannot place crossbowman on walls, as they will not be able to shoot at outside at all.

I have just played a game of vanilla M:TW and the crossbows work fine. This is just an issue with the Stainless Steel mod. In vanilla xbows when on the wall will do both regular shot straight forward, and volley shots.

You are way off on all levels. This is a problem with the wall design from the vanilla game. SS did nothing to edit walls to be harder to shoot from. That makes no sense.

In vanilla xbows when on the wall will do both regular shot straight forward, and volley shots.

I can guarantee that has never happened to you or anyone else as long as there is a wall in front of the unit.

[RedeemerAZ]

You are way off on all levels. This is a problem with the wall design from the vanilla game. SS did nothing to edit walls to be harder to shoot from. That makes no sense.



I can guarantee that has never happened to you or anyone else as long as there is a wall in front of the unit.

in Vanilla, xbows did volley fire like archers while on the wall. While this is not realistic, at least the xbows could shoot out of a wall using this volley.

Guess I will be having them shoot at regiments on the wall now.

[Andytheplatypus]

in Vanilla, xbows did volley fire like archers while on the wall. While this is not realistic, at least the xbows could shoot out of a wall using this volley.

Guess I will be having them shoot at regiments on the wall now.

The same problem is there no matter what version/mod/vanilla you are using. The problem is with the wall design themselves from CA. This mod has done absolutely nothing with the wall to have crossbow men to not shoot.

[SirRobin]

This has been discussed many times before, but here's a summary:

Crossbows on walls will only fire at distant targets within a narrow angle of the CB units facing. This is because the big stone slabs on the walls block line of sight of the individual crossbowmen unless they are looking straight ahead into the distance.

Increasing the firing angle of the crossbows does not help, since indirect fire is almost completely useless.

It's not an issue with this mod, it's due to the incompetence of the developers of the game itself.

This has been a public service announcement.


.

[Erunion Telcontar]

Just to expand on what Yeepeep said, it's also really useful to have crossbows/archers on the streets. Have a decently armoured unit (preferably spear) keep the enemy unit busy, but exposed on the wall, then have your crossbow/archer/javelin shoot at the unit. You'll rack up a ridiculous amount of kills.
This also works at the gate, have your spear/pike/halberd/heavy infantry unit hold them a little bit past the gate, while having your crossbows/archers rip into their flanks.

However, you must always, always turn off skirmish mode and turn on guard mode! Makes an incredible difference for archers!

[k/t]

"That thread does not help. They are only talking about crossbows in the open field. We are talking about crossbowman on the walls in a siege"

Did you even read it?

[magraev]

So in essence there is a problem with the design of the walls, and that means that both archers and crossbowmen are woefully ineffective at shooting out of a castle/city. Thats a shame really. Nice that crossbows can still be effective on the walls though.

[Andytheplatypus]

So in essence there is a problem with the design of the walls, and that means that both archers and crossbowmen are woefully ineffective at shooting out of a castle/city. Thats a shame really. Nice that crossbows can still be effective on the walls though.

Pretty much, yes. Although archers are better at shooting out of walls then crossbowmen, for the most part its a waste of ammo.