Playing as Adunabar

[Revelo]

Okay, some of you may recall that I have been tempted to play as Adunabar after doing the RK and Rohan. however in msot games with morallity choices I usually tend to play on the side of good as evil really doesn't appeal to me so much unless the game essentially calls for it. Which si why I want to try a more anti-hero approch.

I know that Adunabar's very nature calls for me to play worshipping the Shadow Cult. So I was wondering if people had any hints or tips on how I can play as this unique and very interesting faction and answer some questions like:

1) Can I play it by worshipping both the Shadow and the West? (Having specific cities devoted to one or the other)
2) Would it be theefore easier when playing with a mixture of mannish and cultic units?
3) Would Adunabar therefore be the faction which can be played with the 'conquer everything' mindset
4) Are RK ancillaries avaliable for use as Adunabar, so I can grab Anduril, Palantir of Orthanic, etc
5) Is it possible to have family member lose the 'Cultic' trait as well?

Thanks in advance guys. Hope this doesn't sound silly. I want to try them out but it's hard for me to play as evil when if I can choose to be good then I usually will.

[CountMRVHS]

1 - You can have some cities pledged to the Cult, others to Men of the West - but it would be somewhat like having Christian & pagan cities as the Romans in BI. You can do it, but in some ways it's easier to go for one or the other, just for the sake of conversion & unrest.

2 - Ultimately, yes, you do want to keep around units like Royal Spears & Longbowmen - but you can do this, even if the city is technically Cultic. Just don't build any Orcish buildings, and you'll keep your DUnedanic units (iirc).

3 - Conquer everything - absolutely! Adunabar is the perfect faction for that.

Here's the thing: Adunabar has claims to Numenorean greatness. So you can justify keeping your Dunedanic soldiers around despite training orcs etc., because Adun.'s leaders are doing everything in their power to assert their rightful rule over Middle-earth. The ends justify the means sort of thing. You'll need to keep your Mannish troops as a mark of legitimacy, so to speak (and also to stiffen your otherwise weak orcish hordes).

With that mindset, you can totally "justify" sending out your military might all over Middle-earth ... or the part of it you can reach, anyway.

4 - I don't believe so, but Adun. has some great ancs. anyway.

5 - Maybe? Been awhile.

In the end, play what you want - you *can* be "good" as Adunabar, but I find it's much more entertaining to roleplay it from the perspective of a once-great people aspiring to their former might, and stopping at nothing to reach their goals. Trolls, Wargs, Uruks, whatever... they're all just tools you can use so your Dunedanic power can be restored.

[Revelo]

1 - You can have some cities pledged to the Cult, others to Men of the West - but it would be somewhat like having Christian & pagan cities as the Romans in BI. You can do it, but in some ways it's easier to go for one or the other, just for the sake of conversion & unrest.

It's tempting then to have groups of cities devoted to one practice or the other, so have Minas Ithil and cities in North Mordor as cultic for example.

2 - Ultimately, yes, you do want to keep around units like Royal Spears & Longbowmen - but you can do this, even if the city is technically Cultic. Just don't build any Orcish buildings, and you'll keep your DUnedanic units (iirc).

That was what I had in mind. So spot on there

3 - Conquer everything - absolutely! Adunabar is the perfect faction for that.

Here's the thing: Adunabar has claims to Numenorean greatness. So you can justify keeping your Dunedanic soldiers around despite training orcs etc., because Adun.'s leaders are doing everything in their power to assert their rightful rule over Middle-earth. The ends justify the means sort of thing. You'll need to keep your Mannish troops as a mark of legitimacy, so to speak (and also to stiffen your otherwise weak orcish hordes).

With that mindset, you can totally "justify" sending out your military might all over Middle-earth ... or the part of it you can reach, anyway.

This is what I was trying to picture, a more ruthless kingdom of men but not wholly evil, more of a grey area where they had armies of men as great as the kingdoms of old but were happy to use Orcs and Uruks to help the men ensure superiority and usher in a strong dominion of men.

4 - I don't believe so, but Adun. has some great ancs. anyway.

Well I know RK can get Adunabar resources, so I would hope the same happens in reverse.

5 - Maybe? Been awhile.

Would hope so, would love to have a kingdom where religion can be freely practised.

In the end, play what you want - you *can* be "good" as Adunabar, but I find it's much more entertaining to roleplay it from the perspective of a once-great people aspiring to their former might, and stopping at nothing to reach their goals. Trolls, Wargs, Uruks, whatever... they're all just tools you can use so your Dunedanic power can be restored.

For the might of Numenor then, if I am going to be having a faction where the West and Shadow are both worshipped then I need a good song for just that purpose. and I think I know what I will pick.



We shall conquer Middle-earth with the power of Jazz!

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

Would hope so, would love to have a kingdom where religion can be freely practised.

I once bribed a RK general, whom I then made faction heir (by getting the "adoption" event a few turns after having bribed him). After that, all my new family members were Men of the West instead of cultic

[Revelo]

I once bribed a RK general, whom I then made faction heir (by getting the "adoption" event a few turns after having bribed him). After that, all my new family members were Men of the West instead of cultic

I've never been able to bribe RK Generals as Adunabar. the option never comes up, I assume thats down to lack of influence on my diplomats part though. Strangley enough I've never been able to bribe Adunabar generals are RK.

I would love to have family members who arn't cultic, Obviously I plan to have a mixture of cultic and mannish units/cities so a mixture of different religious characters would also be nice.

[Spike]

well, playing as Adunabar actually easier when you only use mannish units instead of orcs and uruks, the only one worth training is the olog hai (and thus only minas ithil has it), and warg archers (far north in Rhovanion). Given Minas Ithil serve as the elite cultist swordsmen recruitment grounds as well, that was the only cults and orc cities. Adunabar needs to learn something from the dunlendings, they can live well alongside their orkish minions

[Nehcrum]

It's hard to play men of the West as Adunabar, they have too many cultist traits on their characters.
Not to mention the royal ancillary, with an incredible conversion rate.

I once bribed a RK general, whom I then made faction heir (by getting the "adoption" event a few turns after having bribed him). After that, all my new family members were Men of the West instead of cultic

All?
Adunabar has a trigger that makes new characters to be cultists at 50% chance. If that one doesn't kick in, they have a follow the leaders religion, that will give them the "christian" trait (men of the west) if your leader has it.
And you can't switch religion on a character.
So you'd still have half of them be cultists.

well, playing as Adunabar actually easier when you only use mannish units instead of orcs and uruks, the only one worth training is the olog hai (and thus only minas ithil has it), and warg archers (far north in Rhovanion). Given Minas Ithil serve as the elite cultist swordsmen recruitment grounds as well, that was the only cults and orc cities. Adunabar needs to learn something from the dunlendings, they can live well alongside their orkish minions

Actually, the orcs are good.
Mannish units are superior, but orcs got some good.
The first and foremost one, might be the orc raiders. Not as a military unit, but as a "settler" unit. Much better than normal settler units, since they cost less in upkeep, wonderful for making small settlements grow quickly.
The snaga archers are perfect as garrison units, being the cheapest unit in the game in upkeep/soldier. And a large unit. And has bows, so they can be of some use in a siege.

The orc champions are the only "common" orc unit of any real value in battle (not counting warg units), but they do quite a good job there, an equal at least of normal swordsmen (and imo better than uruk swordsmen, despite their larger size).
The only uruk unit I think is of any real value tho, is the berserker.
Champions are better than uruk swordsmen, and royal spearmen are better than uruk spearmen.
Ururk halberds might be good, never used them against cavalry in any large amount, I build berserkers instead. After all, very few places can build the necessary upgrade to get them.

I use mannish units, and only some flavor orc units from the three orc cities you start with, and that's because they can't build anything else and the orc buildings give such huge economic bonuses that you should build them even if they'd make it so you can't build any units at all.


Kinda nasty compared to Dunland tho. Adunabar gets access to orc champions from basic orc buildings, while Dunland needs a CD to get them.

[CountMRVHS]

Well, I can't endorse your policy of using orcs to populate your territories , but I agree that generally the orcish units perform decently.

Raiders and snaga archers, though... I never use 'em, except as Dunland, and then only as a "distraction" - I send a stack of the trash orcs into Rohan to draw away Rohan's stacks from my invading army.

Champions are good, indeed. I also like the Uruks - the Swords are fast, iirc, and there are a lot of 'em; and the Spears are decent in some situations.

But the Uruk Halberds are *excellent* in the right situation. For me, that situation is a defensive bridge battle against Rohan. They are great at hacking down Rohan's cavalry, especially when said cav can't pull off a charge in the cramped space of a ford or bridge.

[Nehcrum]

Well, I can't endorse your policy of using orcs to populate your territories , but I agree that generally the orcish units perform decently.

Raiders and snaga archers, though... I never use 'em, except as Dunland, and then only as a "distraction" - I send a stack of the trash orcs into Rohan to draw away Rohan's stacks from my invading army.

Champions are good, indeed. I also like the Uruks - the Swords are fast, iirc, and there are a lot of 'em; and the Spears are decent in some situations.

But the Uruk Halberds are *excellent* in the right situation. For me, that situation is a defensive bridge battle against Rohan. They are great at hacking down Rohan's cavalry, especially when said cav can't pull off a charge in the cramped space of a ford or bridge.

Raiders and snaga archers are good, when used in the right circumstances.
Their best advantage is of course that they take no time to train, and you can get 9 units of them in a single turn.
But the best thing is to queue up 8 of them, and then 1 normal unit, and you get 8 units "for free" while still getting a standard unit with normal training time.

Another part of their advantage is that the buildings which makes them available also gives huge population growth bonuses, meaning there'll be no shortage of population to draw from.

Snaga archers are good due to their cost. They are cheap to train, cheap in upkeep and comes from cities where numbers are cheap. Their low cost makes them superior garrison units for keeping law and order in cities far from the front, freeing up more expensive and effective units to be used where they are better needed.
Snaga are in many cases better as settler units for the same reason, a little fewer men than a raider unit, but they cost less, both to recruit and in upkeep, so depending on distance where they are sent, snaga archers might be better.

Raiders don't have all that bad stats really, they can match some of the lesser units from Dunland and Harad, their big problem is their morale and the horde formation.
But you can throw them out there as cheap meat to be slaughtered and tire out your opponent.
Having 8 or so of them (a single turn of recruiting, as extras even) can also be nice in a siege, to have some expendable units storm in first and soak up enemy missile fire and take the walls so your better units can get in without unneccesary casualties.
And when the fight is over, you just disband them for some bonus population.

Halberds may be good, but berserkers are where the uruks truly shine. Those boys got some real power.
I just love berserker units tho, they can really turn a battle if used properly.

I thought having different citiers worshipping different things would work better, for example have the teritories around North Mordor as cultic but plces like Minas Tirith as Men of the West.

Problem is that territories affect each other, and your total conversion rate depends on surrounding territories. Therefore it's easier to stick to one religion to make your territories help each other out.

yeah... especially if you found those Catapults useful

You can still build those, going cultic religion doesn't lock your unit options, only orcish buildings does that.

I know Adunbar is naturally supposed to turn cultic, but I think it would be cool if one could stay as Men of The West and have a roster that is just as good as RK. RK get's Men-At-Arms and a bunch of unique regional units, so I think if Adunbar stayed aligned with the west they could get super royal spearmen (like 13 attack instead of 9), or some type of gladiator/tank/champion unit that have crazy defense and 18 soldiers. I'm talking gibberish.

But as it is, stay aligning to the west is quite boring for Adunbar purple just doesn't feel evil.

How about some super gladiator/champion unit that got bonus HP and attacks that just plow down the enemy but only has 9 soldiers?
Olog-Hai they are called....

Halberds are the most steadfast, actually. I checked the edu, and they had most morale of all non-human/elven/dwarven units. That's why they're my Orc line infantry

Actually, Orc Champions is the orc unit with the best morale.
And they are a good and solid line infantry choice, having decent defense and good offense together with armour piercing that really helps out against RKs heavily armoured troops.

[Thangaror]

The Uruks are somewhat to weak in my view. They should be really fierce warriors, not really disciplined and trained, but their ferocity and quite good equipment should make up for this. I have increased their morale and stats slightly in my copy, so the Swords to quite a good job. Still they are basically still a meat wall. They should hold the line while the Bowmen keep shooting and then I charge into the enemies rear with Olog-hai and Shadowriders. If the Uruks' line breaks I have 2 units of Swords of the Shadow and 2 units of Spearmen as reinforcements and Champions for the blood-spill.

Btw, why do Swords of the Shadow lack the shield-wall ability?

[Rahwana]

if you increase the morale of Uruks, it will make them imbalanced, not against Reunited kingdom or Rohan units (who are much better of course), but against the poor Haradrim and Rhun troopers, who lack their numbers and has the same level of morale with them...

Uruks in FATW are made for quickly encircled enemy and sweep them with superrior numbers and not so bad armour... orc units are also useful for intimmidating garrisons and storming poorly defended cities

[Thangaror]

if you increase the morale of Uruks, it will make them imbalanced, not against Reunited kingdom or Rohan units (who are much better of course), but against the poor Haradrim and Rhun troopers, who lack their numbers and has the same level of morale with them...

"My" Haradrim will proove quite a tough enemy for "my" Uruks, and even a well-balanced host of the RK. I increased morale and armour of most Haradrian, Easterling and Dunlendish units for I felt they were to weak (especially the Haradrim).

[Double X]

"My" Haradrim will proove quite a tough enemy for "my" Uruks, and even a well-balanced host of the RK. I increased morale and armour of most Haradrian, Easterling and Dunlendish units for I felt they were to weak (especially the Haradrim).

I'd rather make the unit size gap larger than increase the skill of soldiers. I'd prefer to make MaA 20 units or Uruk Swords at 80 units instead.

[Double X]

Campaigning with a new general...does anyone else notice how easily adunbar Uruks/Ologhai/Wargs rout? Like I'll have 60 halberds heading for some light cavalry and bam they'll all rout. Is this something normal or unique to my game? This hasn't happened to me before...

[Thangaror]

I'd rather make the unit size gap larger than increase the skill of soldiers. I'd prefer to make MaA 20 units or Uruk Swords at 80 units instead.

No, changing the number of men actually is a bad idea for two reasons. You can observe this easily when playing a Custom Battle Elves versus Orcs.
First, despite the fact that the Elves are the very best units in game, the sheer number of Orcs overhelms them: One unit of Orcs can easily bind two units of Elves! Thus the whole Elven army becomes surrounded within seconds and is slaughtered like the Romans at Cannae. Additionally the rear attack has a massive impact on morale.
Second, the Elves will receive a huge morale malus simply due to being outnumbered.

Yet I have to admit that the Elven unit roster is incomplete and they lack cavalry and some "real" elite units (like GotC).

[Spike]

well, that's partially the reasons elves got "hide anywhere" ability

they are meant to be "SURPRISE! U RE PWND!" troops

[Revelo]

I thought having different citiers worshipping different things would work better, for example have the teritories around North Mordor as cultic but plces like Minas Tirith as Men of the West.

[Rahwana]

I thought having different citiers worshipping different things would work better, for example have the teritories around North Mordor as cultic but plces like Minas Tirith as Men of the West.

yeah... especially if you found those Catapults useful

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

All?
Adunabar has a trigger that makes new characters to be cultists at 50% chance. If that one doesn't kick in, they have a follow the leaders religion, that will give them the "christian" trait (men of the west) if your leader has it.
And you can't switch religion on a character.
So you'd still have half of them be cultists.

All my new family members. The old ones were still cultic, but the newcomers got Man of the West (most of the time)

[Revelo]

All my new family members. The old ones were still cultic, but the newcomers got Man of the West (most of the time)

Thats a relief then. I don't just want to be stuck with Cultic characters when ideally I'm only using cultic worship in specific cities and breeding cultic troops as a means to an end. Once I conquer most of the map I'd convert entirely to Men of the West anyway. I'd hope the cultic characters would die out as new ones came of age with MoW traits.