Taliban insurgents escape Afghan Jail

[Cesarz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13184920

More than 470 inmates at a prison in southern Afghanistan have escaped through a tunnel hundreds of metres long and dug from outside the jail.

This is the second time the prison has been breached.

In June 2008 a suicide bomber blew open the Kandahar prison gates and destroyed a nearby checkpoint, freeing about 900 prisoners, many of them suspected insurgents.

Is this really the time for NATO to withdraw? Clearly not.

[The Dude]

It's either time for NATO to withdraw, or time for NATO to grow a pair and call down a mandate that allows for some kicking of ass because it's unfathomable to me that this is happening to prison complexes guarded and maintained by the best equipped armies on the planet.

[flonky]

I wonder how much this was possible due to corruption within the Afghan authorities. Seems like a pretty majoy operation, and with professional help it's a wonder how it occured without being noticed during all those five months. Probably a lot of bribery involved...

it's unfathomable to me that this is happening to prison complexes guarded and maintained by the best equipped armies on the planet.

The prison where the breakout occured is under Afghan control, it says so in the article. NATO troops do not man it.

[The Dude]

The prison where the breakout occured is under Afghan control, it says so in the article. NATO troops do not man it.

Right, that was sloppy on my part. <_<

At any rate, it's just as infathomable to me that ten years in, the Afghan army is still in this horrid, horrid shape.

It's like nobody in that country, be it Taliban, NATO or Afghan forces really wants to win anything. Is anyone really giving this their 100%? I doubt it. No wonder this war is just quietly skirmishing its way from one year into the other. Nobody cares enough to put some effort into it, but they're all just enough of a nuisance to each other to force the other parties to stay.

[flonky]

At any rate, it's just as infathomable to me that ten years in, the Afghan army is still in this horrid, horrid shape.

The ANA isn't in the best shape, but remember it's was only created back in 2001 - it's still quite new. They only just started training their own troops, too. I watched a documentary about it recently, and they are improving - but I guess a lot of the current troops have been poorly trained and thrust into the action to get the numbers quickly.

[Poach]

Right, that was sloppy on my part. <_<

At any rate, it's just as infathomable to me that ten years in, the Afghan army is still in this horrid, horrid shape.

It's like nobody in that country, be it Taliban, NATO or Afghan forces really wants to win anything. Is anyone really giving this their 100%? I doubt it. No wonder this war is just quietly skirmishing its way from one year into the other. Nobody cares enough to put some effort into it, but they're all just enough of a nuisance to each other to force the other parties to stay.

It takes decades to build a decent military, not 8 (ANA was founded in 2002) short years. In 20 year's time, if they're still making these mistakes, we can laugh at them.

Right now, they need US help to even train new recruits: they're not a real Army, they're a militia that's trying to become an Army. When the ANA can conduct their own affairs with minimal or no US input, they'll be a real Army. When they've got a core of experienced career NCOs and Officers that know how stuff is done without needing to double-check with someone in the US Army, they'll be a real Army.

Such incompetance in the early days is expected. It's a disaster, and those responsible should be punished, but anyone who expected the ANA to be a fully competant and capable force after a mere 8 years has been deluding themselves.

[Captain Jin]

Right, that was sloppy on my part. <_<

At any rate, it's just as infathomable to me that ten years in, the Afghan army is still in this horrid, horrid shape.

It's like nobody in that country, be it Taliban, NATO or Afghan forces really wants to win anything. Is anyone really giving this their 100%? I doubt it. No wonder this war is just quietly skirmishing its way from one year into the other. Nobody cares enough to put some effort into it, but they're all just enough of a nuisance to each other to force the other parties to stay.

Poach already pointed out some great points. Another, however, is that it's sometimes difficult to train Muslim troops. It's not something we think about in the west, probably not even something lots of muslims in the west think about. But in those countries (Iraq and Afghanistan) they recruit from all over the country and get lots of poor and uneducated folks who have strong religious beliefs. It makes if very hard then to train them properly because they often convinced that it's God's will for certain things to happen the way they do. You will spend the time to teach them the basic tenets of rifle marksmanship from proper sight picture, proper sight alignment, good trigger squeeze and all of that. They'll sit there and listen to you, then as soon as you give them the weapon they fire wildly disregarding everything you tried to teach them. When you ask them why (or more precisely you ask their NCOs wtf?) they say he believes it's up to God whether the bullets hit their target. This was a really large barrier for us to overcome in Iraq and it went beyond just marksmanship but into small unit tactics and the like.

The benefit there was that we already had an established NCO corps of Iraqis to help which made a huge difference. Many of the former members of Saddam's army reenlisted and became NCO and they had the basic fundamentals down. They were by no means up to western standards, but they were light years ahead of many of the recruits that were showing up. They helped enormously in the transition in Iraq (which is still ongoing). Afghanistan doesn't have that pool veteran soldiers to pull from in regards to a more professional army. So we are literally building something out of nothing whatsoever, and believe me that's a very significant undertaking.

[Cesarz]

It's either time for NATO to withdraw, or time for NATO to grow a pair and call down a mandate that allows for some kicking of ass because it's unfathomable to me that this is happening to prison complexes guarded and maintained by the best equipped armies on the planet.

I think it's actually guarded and maintained by Afghans.
But NATO really should "grow a pair" I agree.

[Ahlerich]

It's either time for NATO to withdraw, or time for NATO to grow a pair and call down a mandate that allows for some kicking of ass because it's unfathomable to me that this is happening to prison complexes guarded and maintained by the best equipped armies on the planet.

true, if we would have hanged all the prisoners ans shot their known family members like in a proper anti partisan warfare this would not have happened

[Captain Jin]

Wasting good frontline troops on guard duty around a prison is ... well... a waste. But maybe some NATO countries should invest in sending correctional officers from their home countries over to these Afghan jails and do some more training and teaching and so forth if they haven't already. I know in Iraq we had police transition teams which brought lots of police officers from the US over to mentor and train Iraqi police officers.

[SPECTREtm]

Wasting good frontline troops on guard duty around a prison is ... well... a waste. But maybe some NATO countries should invest in sending correctional officers from their home countries over to these Afghan jails and do some more training and teaching and so forth if they haven't already. I know in Iraq we had police transition teams which brought lots of police officers from the US over to mentor and train Iraqi police officers.

They could always hire BlackWater.....

[Babur]

Wasting good frontline troops on guard duty around a prison is ... well... a waste. But maybe some NATO countries should invest in sending correctional officers from their home countries over to these Afghan jails and do some more training and teaching and so forth if they haven't already. I know in Iraq we had police transition teams which brought lots of police officers from the US over to mentor and train Iraqi police officers.

why don't you help out in Afghanistan then?

[Captain Jin]

why don't you help out in Afghanistan then?

I might end up there next year for all I know.

[Rolling Thunder]

I might end up there next year for all I know.

And may Allah have mercy upon the Taliban.

[Poach]

A several hundred meter long tunnel originating outside the prison is quite a feat of organisation, I'd think. You can shrug it off as incompetance by the Afghan's guarding the prison, but it's not like a bunch of Taliban just cracked a hole in the wall and the idiot guards blundered around while everyone was running out this hole: clearly weeks of organisation and work went into this break-out.

[PointOfViewGun]

I wish my country send some 50 thousand to Afghanistan to speed the stuff there. They can do it. They should do it.

[Necromancer]

Heard about this on the news this morning. Nice little bit to wake up to, Tali insurgents escaping from prison...

[Big War Bird]

I wondered if it sounded anything like this:

[Necromancer]

^^^Im sure it sounded similar. But, it would be in the relative harmonic minor key.

[SPECTREtm]

Show no mercy, for you shall recieve none.