Massive leak reveals information about Camp X-Ray

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

Oh yes, ladies and gentlemen of the Pit, it's Wikileaks time once more.

More than 700 leaked secret files on the Guantánamo detainees lay bare the inner workings of America's controversial prison camp in Cuba.

The US military dossiers, obtained by the New York Times and the Guardian, reveal how, alongside the so-called "worst of the worst", many prisoners were flown to the Guantánamo cages and held captive for years on the flimsiest grounds, or on the basis of lurid confessions extracted by maltreatment.

The 759 Guantánamo files, classified "secret", cover almost every inmate since the camp was opened in 2002. More than two years after President Obama ordered the closure of the prison, 172 are still held there.

The files depict a system often focused less on containing dangerous terrorists or enemy fighters, than on extracting intelligence. Among inmates who proved harmless were an 89-year-old Afghan villager, suffering from senile dementia, and a 14-year-old boy who had been an innocent kidnap victim.

Full Article

I'm personally not to suprised with these revelations. Still it's gonna do a lot to damage American interests in the Muslim World (especially Afghanistan). Amusing that the ISI is listed as a terrorist organization.

[Corvis]

Inb4 everyone posts "I, for one, am not surprised"

I'm personally not to suprised with these revelations

Crap.

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

Inb4 everyone posts "I, for one, am not surprised"



Crap.

Not everyone was so blind as to think that Guantanamo bay was a lovely Cuban holiday resort, and nothing remotely illegal, like oh I don't know, torture, ever went on there.

Is it nice up there in your Ivory Tower?

[Corvis]

Not everyone was so blind as to think that Guantanamo bay was a lovely Cuban holiday resort, and nothing remotely illegal, like oh I don't know, torture, ever went on there.

No , which is why saying you're not surprised is redundant and it's just a banal way of trying to sound more worldly and knowledgeable.

Is it nice up there in your Ivory Tower?

What

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

No , which is why saying you're not surprised is redundant and it's just a banal way of trying to sound more worldly and knowledgeable.

Sorry, next time I'll ask you to proof read my posts, lest I come across as banal.

[Tiberios]

Not everyone was so blind as to think that Guantanamo bay was a lovely Cuban holiday resort, and nothing remotely illegal, like oh I don't know, torture, ever went on there.

Is it nice up there in your Ivory Tower?

I doubt many people have any illusions as to what is going on in Guantanamo.

[flonky]

Inb4 everyone posts "I, for one, am not surprised"

Some of us have been researching this topic a bit. So, I am not surprised, no.

Still it's gonna do a lot to damage American interests in the Muslim World (especially Afghanistan).

The recent pictures of US soldiers posing with the bodies of murdered Afghan civilians (who were innocent) has thus far failed to cause much of a ruckus. Why should this? Anyways, I think the American reputation has pretty much hit rock bottom in parts of the Middle East, anyways.

However horrible and inhumane these 'revelations' are, I am skeptical of the impact they will have.

[Dr Zoidberg]

US authorities listed the main Pakistani intelligence service, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), as a terrorist organisation alongside groups such as al-Qaida, Hamas, Hezbollah and Iranian intelligence....

The inclusion of association with the ISI as a "threat indicator" in this document is likely to pour fuel on the flames of Washington's already strained relationship with its key regional ally.A number of the detainee files also contain references, apparently based on intelligence reporting, to the ISI supporting, co-ordinating and protecting insurgents fighting coalition forces in Afghanistan, or even assisting al-Qaida.

Interesting to see this spelt out in black & white. The reaction to this will be very interesting to watch, both from wider international community and certain members of the TWC community.

[boofhead]

Leaked to the Guardian by the New York Times.

They gonna be charged with rape?

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLufg...yer_detailpage Good movie about this subject. I think the new anti terror laws broiught in effects all our rights as anybody can be called a terrorist and held indefenately without trial and be waterboarded.Prisoners should be treated according to the Geneva convention.Bush got around this by calling people terrorists and not soldiers.Its not only the muslim world that is outraged by Abu Garib and Guantanamo bay and throphy photos alot of europeans are unhappy

[Gromovnik]

Well most terrorists aren't soldiers...

[flonky]

Prisoners should be treated according to the Geneva convention.

I agree. PoWs, even if not soldiers of a country, should be treated as such.

Well most terrorists aren't soldiers...

Soldiers and terrorists do what they do to impose ideals for their organisations. For example the West does so to install democracy and freedom (ideally, anyway), terrorists do so to install a particular ideal (eg Islamic terrorists generally seek to impose some form of Sharia Law). The only difference is that soldiers do it as a job, for money and/or patriotism. Terrorists mainly do it out of belief in whatever ideal they believe in. Furthermore, in some ways, soldiers can be as terrorising as the terrorists (via collateral damage which isn't always accidental). It's just that soldiers have the backing of a country, so they are 'justified'.

This is the basis for why I think terrorists should fall under the Geneva Convention.

[boofhead]

If someone fights your army, without a uniform, without belonging to a recognised national army, and is caught by your army, they should be put up against a wall and executed, just like they have been for centuries.

That would solve the problem of Guantanamo. It wouldn't even have to exist.

[Rolling Thunder]

If someone fights your army, without a uniform, without belonging to a recognised national army, and is caught by your army, they should be put up against a wall and executed, just like they have been for centuries.

I'm sure the intelligence community will thank you for throttling the supply of information regarding the various insurgencies that we're currently fighting.

And I'm sure the soldiers on the ground will thank you for giving already-fanatical troops yet another reason to fight to the death, rather than surrender when massively overmatched.

And I'm even more sure that the strategic command will thank you for giving aforementioned insurgencies and terrorist groups yet more recruiting material.

And I would find it certain that the memory of all those soldiers who died fighting in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and all the unnamed heroes of the intelligence community, and all the victims of terrorism would thank you, by associating their memories with methods that are most famous and reknowned for their recent employment by Nazi Germany.

So the US has been beheading news journalists TOO!?

When a 30mm high explosive round hits you, pretty much everything flies off. So technically....yes.

[Necromancer]

When a 30mm high explosive round hits you, pretty much everything flies off. So technically....yes.

Those anti-journalist shells always do the trick...

[Adhamh Ashashi]

We all know what was going on in Gitmo, no need to publish it in a paper.

If someone fights your army, without a uniform, without belonging to a recognised national army, and is caught by your army, they should be put up against a wall and executed, just like they have been for centuries.

That would solve the problem of Guantanamo. It wouldn't even have to exist.

Double standards, cause when this happens in Libya, it is "NOOOO THAT IS BAD!"

Want to clear that up for me Boof?

[boofhead]

Double standards, cause when this happens in Libya, it is "NOOOO THAT IS BAD!"

Want to clear that up for me Boof?

What? See Irelanddb's post above.

I believe that their execution still requires a formal, civilian trial and then they are punished as according to the laws of the country they were apprehended in.

You believe wrong. What did the Allies do in WW2 to spies and other armed enemies who wore no uniform?

Military trial.

Shot.

[Rolling Thunder]

You believe wrong. What did the Allies do in WW2 to spies and other armed enemies who wore no uniform?

Military trial.

Shot.

I'm sure the intelligence community will thank you for throttling the supply of information regarding the various insurgencies that we're currently fighting.

And I'm sure the soldiers on the ground will thank you for giving already-fanatical troops yet another reason to fight to the death, rather than surrender when massively overmatched.

And I'm even more sure that the strategic command will thank you for giving aforementioned insurgencies and terrorist groups yet more recruiting material.

And I would find it certain that the memory of all those soldiers who died fighting in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and all the unnamed heroes of the intelligence community, and all the victims of terrorism would thank you, by associating their memories with methods that are most famous and reknowned for their recent employment by Nazi Germany.

[flonky]

Boofhead, by your rules, freedom fighters who are trying to rid a country of tyranny (and thus doing good) should also be executed. Is that right? I don't think so. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. People deserve rights, no matter who they are.

That would solve the problem of Guantanamo. It wouldn't even have to exist.

Whatever happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'? Or in the case of Guantanamo Bay...a trial by jury?

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Boofhead, by your rules, freedom fighters who are trying to rid a country of tyranny (and thus doing good) should also be executed. Is that right? I don't think so. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. People deserve rights, no matter who they are.?

The 3rd Geneva conventions offers no protection to such fighters unless they meet the following criteria:

• that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
• that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
• that of carrying arms openly;
• that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

Do the taliban wear a distinctive insignia or conduct their operations in accordance with the laws of war? Do they have a formal chain of command? Do they carry arms openly?

Because if not, the convention allows for them to be executed.