Which covenant with Moses is correct?

[Old_Scratch]

In Exodus 21, the original covenant with Moses and his people, including the ten commandments that we all know, was famously inscribed on two tablets and Moses broke them in anger over the golden calf fiasco.

So Yahweh had him make two more tablets and write another covenant (Exodus 34) which differs drastically from the first and is much shorter.

Now, does this mean that the first covenant was broken when the tablets were broken, and the second tablets are now law? That's what it would seem to me, but when we get to Deuteronomy 5, Moses announces to his people the commandments from the first tablet. The second tablet seems to have been entirely forgotten at this point. Was the second tablet just an addendum to the first, or was it a new covenant that was meant to replace the previous?

This question spawned from an argument about the biblical accuracy of the movie "The Ten Commandments".

[Scipio Africanus Maximus]

The Ten Commandments stayed the same. What you are talking about is simply additional laws and regulations, much like the series in chapter 20.

[MentshmitT]

I think when you try to answer the question which covenant is correct, you will always face the dilemma that you come from the copy and the original remains hidden. It's the classical problem of preservation of originals. The original very first handwriting is lost at some point and the original question starts to be discursive, ethics that reflect on their conditions and consequences. Ergo, the (ethical, reflective) commented version(s) is/are the correct one(s) or you say, the commentary takes the place of the original. What is then the correct commentary? It is likely the one that can approach your understanding because texts require an explanation to achieve meaning.

[basics]

" Now, does this mean that the first covenant was broken when the tablets were broken,...."

Old_Scratch,

There were two forms of Law given to Moses, the first being how God expected to be worshipped and the others on how Israel were expected to live day by day, this concerning the mundane things that humans have to do yet do according to the will of God.

To begin to understand them is to get into the mind of a Jew, to live like a Jew and think like a Jew, something that us Gentiles haven't a clue about so I doubt very much if ever a film was made that could do that properly. Ever since Moses brought down the Law that people have lived and died under it in a way we could never envisage.

[Blau&Gruen]

if ever a film was made that could do that properly

There is a rumor that if you watch the Charlton Heston movie very attentively that then you can see bicycles parked at the foot of the Pyramide.

and think like a Jew, something that us Gentiles haven't a clue about so I doubt

It might be a myth. Does not every person think a bit different?

[Molly Norris]

It's interesting what we win when we start to look on others as individual persons.

[godol shmok]

You should say 'characters' not individual person in the internet.

Do you have a face book account or are you a face book account?

[Molly Norris]

I am not, neither I have, again shmok and B&G go OT.

[basics]

" It might be a myth. Does not every person think a bit different? "

Blau&Gruen,

In the days that I talk of the thinking and acting by a Jew revolved around the Law to such an extent that their hatred of the world never subsided, rather increased as more laws were added to the originals. Of course Jews thought differently on many subjects but most of these differences were around the Law and where these subjects stood concerning it. To some that still stands today.

Us Gentiles were never yoked by the Law, even by natural law, and but for the advent of Jesus, we still wouldn't know much if anything about it. In those days the nations could observe, could find out a little about this One-God, but yet never quite understand or accept the power He had over the Israelites. If anything these peoples always or mostly always were on the wrong side of Him.

To them there were multiple gods that one could call on at any time and they did as we know for like a poor copy of the tribes they too wouldn't do much without signs and to a much lesser extent the wonders that followed the Jews. So to know God one has to know what the Jew had about God, what he thought about God and how he led his life in accordance to God. Not because they were all Godly, but because some were and they had the message.

[Blau&Gruen]

Individuals relate to individuals. Imagine two lovers (A, B).

Hypothetical

If A says to B: I love the Lovers.
Then B says to A*: I have no idea who you mean. Bye.

You see, it's a match** that won't work (that way).

*We can expect this from empirical experience at least.
**match, here for a thought or a myth.

[Molly Norris]

You seem to think at Husserl's idea of social communication.

[Col. Tartleton]

So as you can see, science has shown the Jews lost 1/3 and most of it was crap anyway.

[Old_Scratch]

Looking it over again, I think the only plausable explination is that Moses spent a lot of time writing the first tablets, 40 days iirc. They were covered in text front and back, and when he broke them he really didn't feel like writing that all over again so he just carved in a few random commandments to sum it up and just related the rest verbally.

[MentshmitT]

The weak point in this hypothesis is that the first version had not been written by Moses. The original not made by Moses is one of the plots of the story.

[Molly Norris]

On the other hand, one of the plots is that the we often do not deserve the original because we stay behind its demands.

[Blau&Gruen]

We lack the perfection for the match. Sad. That's life.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Did anybody see the documantary about the covenant and it claimed aliens gave it to moses to feed the jews coz how else they have survived with no food in a hostile place?And diddnt the jews build the pyrimids for the egyptions?Maybe these aliens were thought of as god and they gave the 10 commandments and spiritual values to the jews to pass on.Therefore becoming the chosen people??I dont believe it but its a theory that the history channel was on about.

[Blau&Gruen]

Well, Husserl was talking about intentions of individual subjects and about inter-subjectivity. Inter-subjectivity poses problems in Philosophy, especially when you come from another corner of the garden of philosophy than Husserl. When Husserl was writing his book or holding the lecture that made it later into the book, there were other Philosophers on the way to formulate proposals in the hope to solve similar problems of rationals. - But as I have said, I would have to read the passages again and I am also more the kind of person who remembers well skurilities, less the more serious points.*


*the problem of the state of animalness (Tierheit) of the transcendental ego.

Moses, intersubjectivity and aliens ... Gosh, where does that lead!

[basics]

Old_Scratch,

My understanding of the making or carving of the tablets was that the hand or finger of God actually did it, but if anyone can contradict that then please say. It is also interesting to note, this brought to my attention by an old Christian friend, that the woman about to be stoned after being caught in adultery was saved from that not only by the words of Jesus but what He did when saying them.

As He spoke of any free of personal sin being at liberty to cast the first stone, His finger was etching something out on the ground, many having wondered what exactly that was. I was told that it was this along with His words that frightened the stoners because just as the finger that carved the tablets so it was that the same finger carved the ground in front of them and they knew it, their consciences being cut to the quick.

Whether they believed that He was actually God is perfectly well debatable, but remember they didn't have to think that because they already thought of Him as a Prophet and Israel's history was such that if possible you didn't mess around with them but if you did expect some serious consequences. So in effect His writing on the ground could well have been part of the Commandments.