ZenMod, 7/30 v4.5 updated for DLC PATCH, Darth & Mutant vers. available

[General Malaise]

Hey Malaise,
What file did you change to avoid the CTD with the new patch? I must have missed it.

Radious pointed it out. It is buildings_effects_junctions_tables. I simply deleted it from my files, later I will look into re-adding a, hopefully, compatible version.

And I think we should bring the archers to the Mutant level. I seriously enjoy the Mutant Zen with my archer settings. Give it a try

Well, mutant mod version already has all your values for projectiles only difference is I removed the accuracy boosts since 1) I don't think higher accuracy for less ammo is a good balance mechanism and 2) they were drastically different from vanilla, whereas the rest of your version is not. Perhaps a patch for powerful archers.

I'd be more interested in this mod if it also wasn't a realism stats mod. I would prefer to just have the units.

It's not a realism stats mods, it's a realism units mod. The stats have been altered more for slighltly longer battles and to give units more unique roles. This is kind of grating to hear though in any event, since it's kind of like saying you're not interested in any of the actual creative work but just me switching around files to make units available or "new". Just having the units wouldn't really work great anyway, since this isn't a units add-on mod but redoes the entire roster and thus has a different dynamic.

If you really only care about having new units though, Swiss Halberdier may be adding some of my units to his AUM mod soon.

Using the Zen/DM hybrid, I've noticed that ships no longer have DM's movement speed. Is this intentional?

Sounds like a slip-up actually. When I have time to work on this again I will look into it; pretty sure I now I how slipped up already now though.

Also, the AI seems to be recruiting a whole lot of Yari Ashigaru and no Naginata Ashigaru.

Well, this is the third or fourth complaint about AI recruitment however it's different each time. First it was yumi ashigaru, then yumi samurai, now this, etc. So, I can't really say. If, however, *you* are having problems or bugs recruiting them then the patch messed them up. I used Loan Swords as a base for Naginata and I believe the patch tried to lock players out of them so they can sell it to you later as DLC. I can fix that also easily I think when I have a chance.

EDIT: One last question, are Naginata Samurai now affected by ancillaries that add to Sword Infantry dmg or Naginata Infantry dmg? Neither? Either? Both?

General ancillaries seem to not work right---I suspect they are stored in a file that requires heavy text editing as it is not supported by the PFM yet, which is to say they will stay that way until it does. As of now they are using the default vanilla classes for units, so whatever naginata are in vanilla is what they are when it comes to general ancillaries. All of the other types of bonuses to Sword units should now apply to Naginata troops though (technologies, buildings, events, etc.) Basically, if you train it with a Sojutsu Dojo it's a spear unit, and with a Naginata jutsu Dojo it's a sword unit in ZenMod.

Yes, I am thinking that the ships need to be faster, too. Japan is about as long as California, and it shouldn't take you two years to sail from one end to the other

Yes again I will fix that, but it will be a while unfortunately. Campaign MP movement is in a different table than unit_stats so I'm 99% sure that's what the problem is and if you're using Darth they should already be faster but I messed up combining the mods. For the basic version though I'm keeping things as close to vanilla as possible for people who want that for whatever reason.

[Jarric]

Thank you for the reply. For what it's worth, I'm actually enjoying your vision quite a bit. Your units are an interesting alternative to AUM's "everything and the kitchen sink" approach. But there are some things with DMS I really like too (don't know how I ever survived with 2 pts per level up), so hopefully you'll have time to sit down and go through the code eventually.

One complaint though. Not sure if you intended this, but removing the Shimazu +1 Loyalty to generals actually made playing them very very hard, despite their hardcore foot samurai. The whole point of that bonus is to offset the loyalty drop (due to -2 honor) everyone will get if you turn Christian. And of course if anyone's going to convert, it's the Shimazu.

Keep up the good work.

[General Malaise]

Thank you for the reply. For what it's worth, I'm actually enjoying your vision quite a bit. Your units are an interesting alternative to AUM's "everything and the kitchen sink" approach. But there are some things with DMS I really like too (don't know how I ever survived with 2 pts per level up), so hopefully you'll have time to sit down and go through the code eventually.

Darth version should be giving you 3 points a level up now, so should Mutant version. Are they not working? Bah, I hope the patch didn't mess them up too.

EDIT: Meant to say 3 points a level up.

One complaint though. Not sure if you intended this, but removing the Shimazu +1 Loyalty to generals actually made playing them very very hard, despite their hardcore foot samurai. The whole point of that bonus is to offset the loyalty drop (due to -2 honor) everyone will get if you turn Christian. And of course if anyone's going to convert, it's the Shimazu.

Keep up the good work.

Well, I didn't touch the Shimazu loyalty bonus or any other non-unit clan bonuses. You're either mistaken, the dms version alters them, or, again, the patch is being weird.

[Silius Saurus]

One thing I would add to the mod is larger ZOC for armies; vanilla ZOC's are far too small, IMHO.

Of course, I need to check the changelogs just in case you already have modded that....

[Seikales]

I am quite frustrated with the 1 on 1 melee fight mechanics of this game. You can't hit a man at this back or on his side, unless he is routing. Do you have any ideas to get around this, imho moronic, feature?

[General Malaise]

I'm tempted to go on a long rant in response to this, about how linking the visual representation to the dice rolls was a terrible idea mechanically for this very reason, even if it makes things look cooler but...whoops already did off on a tangent. Short answer is no, I don't think it's possible with the engine unfortunately. Certainly not within my ability at any rate. You could perhaps increase morale effects or attack bonus for units when they outnumber others more to simulate this but that's not perfect as it doesn't take local circumstances of exactly how they are outnumber the opponents into account.

EDIT: Missed this one:

One thing I would add to the mod is larger ZOC for armies; vanilla ZOC's are far too small, IMHO.

Of course, I need to check the changelogs just in case you already have modded that....

No, I haven't, and while it is a good idea I don't think it is possible either unfortunately. Darth probably already would have done it if it was. I'm really a beginner though at this, warscape anyway, so it's probably better to ask him and if he actually has or knows how then I'll look into that too at some point.

[Seikales]

Hey,

Well yeah, I guess not possible as well. I think Mutant version already plays with morale in quite a nice way.

Now I am working on a totally new way of gaining experience and stats, based on trained city and battles partaken. I will share some ideas once I conclude my preliminary research. But if I succeed, it should add an enormous RP value to the game

Edits: Certain features lead to crash. Apparently, not possible. Bugger.
Cheers

Note: Downloading members, please comment on game experience and mechanics.

Note 2: Perhaps we can write little after-action stories using our mod for fun? Interested creative members are welcome.

[Totalheadache]

I really like the look of this mod so +rep. So much so am going to ignore the laggy campaign map and give it a go!!

Fingers x.

i would like to have seen maybe bigger bomb thrower unit (maybe is done dunno) and perhaps a hojo cannon or mangonel hero or rocket hero. i like the fact they get a melee hero.

i dont know whether you could have three heros per faction? (togukawa ninja hero as well?)

also mori is much more attractive now..

[General Malaise]

Well, I had a bit of time so I fixed the ship campaign movement issue for the darthmod version (hopefully). I also added a new, what will likely be the last, unit-a mounted archer sohei recruitable with a mountain hermitage (lvl2 holy site) as making a mixed naginata-bow unit didn't really sound right to me. Finally, I gave Tokugawa Sogekihei more ammo, as they had too little for a small hero unit.

However, as I'm not at a place where I can get to my comp that has Shogun on it right now, and still won't be for a bit, I can't test this. I'm 90% certain it will work though. Make sure you use "ZenPatch.pack" for the basic and mutantmod versions and "ZenPatchDMS.pack" for the darthmod version only. Just drop in the data folder, no user script needed for any version.

EDIT: Should probably post the link heh.

http://www.zshare.net/download/90073199f2eb6db4/

[Totalheadache]

Whilst i really like some of the ideas i found the combat dragged on too much. P.S Although am not happy with perf atm so my judgement is a bit grumpy at the least.

[Seikales]

Hey Totalheadache,

What mod did you use? ZenMutant, Zen DMS or plain Zen?

Compared to most other mods, Zen Mutant mods fights are not that long, if you pay attention to breaking their morale and tiring them out.

Cheers and have fun

[Hannarr]

The Oda should have Nagamaki Hero Units, its a shame the S2 doesn't have any Nagamaki atm.

[Totalheadache]

Hey Totalheadache,

What mod did you use? ZenMutant, Zen DMS or plain Zen?

Compared to most other mods, Zen Mutant mods fights are not that long, if you pay attention to breaking their morale and tiring them out.

Cheers and have fun

i just did the zen dms...another thing am not 2 sure on is the archers extra range. think i prefer the van ranges. also i think the ammunition was less.

they didnt really play a part and then i found i was using them to flank units that were in melee...(no reason they shouldnt have dropped their bows n charged in but i would want to preserve my archers in battles as its quite a skill).

[dannydandy]

im trying out this mod in teh basic version, and i realise that only the first row of the wako archer unit actually fires, i dunno if this is intentional or a bug

[Silius Saurus]

I was playing Darthmod but found the Ikko-Ikki to be way overpowered owing to their ability to hire monks early in the game. So I'm playing Zenmod for the time being.

Thanks for your efforts.

[General Malaise]

i just did the zen dms...another thing am not 2 sure on is the archers extra range. think i prefer the van ranges. also i think the ammunition was less.

they didnt really play a part and then i found i was using them to flank units that were in melee...(no reason they shouldnt have dropped their bows n charged in but i would want to preserve my archers in battles as its quite a skill).

Archers don't have extra range in ZenMod. Archers in DMS are nerfed. If you want more powerful archers try the Mutant version.

im trying out this mod in teh basic version, and i realise that only the first row of the wako archer unit actually fires, i dunno if this is intentional or a bug

Weird, didn't notice anything like that myelf. I will look into it.

[Wodeson]

Yes they were. For the mod though, the recruitment table is adjusted a bit now for the AI to prefer samurai, which is unhistorical but makes battles more challenging. Ashigaru in my mod do however have considerably more men in their units compared to samurai (240/200 to 160/120 on huge) but yes, it's still not about the 90% to 10% ration it would have been in history.

This is a misconception. The Samurai to Ashigaru ratio of armies could vary a great deal, but a 50/50 split would not be far from the mean average.

While armies could then be further bulked out by hastily improvised town militias, or in the case of the Ikko Ikki, hordes of fanatics, one should not mistake them for Ashigaru, who had by this period become drilled professionals in many clans.

Infact by the end of the period, some armies are described as being entirely composed of Samurai, as former Ashigaru were promoted to lowest class Samurai status.

[General Malaise]

Lol, well you see? The mod is accurate then after all.

[General Malaise]

v2.8 out now, includes fixes for patch compatiblity, dms 2.1 update (darth version only), and much more-particularly involving ronin and the ikko ikki

-Fixed cheering animation bug
-Fixed only front rank of archer wako firing
-Fixed archer wako not receiving bow-tech bonuses
-Fixed archer wako having wrong officer
-Removed paths seldom trod from Kiba Sohei
-Gave Tokugawa Sogekihei hero more ammo
-Change icon/uniform of Sogekihei to look more like sharpshooters
-Added Kyuba Sohei unit from (now obsolete) mini-patch
-Fixed Kyuba Sohei AI recruitment values
-Added Kyuba Sohei to buddhist rebel and ikko ikki spawns
-Added Yari Sohei to buddhist rebel and ikko ikki spawns
-Added Naginata Ashigaru to all rebel spawns
-Added Sanpei Wako to pirate group spawns
-Fixed AI recruitment values for Sanpei Wako
-Added new Nanban Teppo Samurai unit, recruited at Nanban Ports
-Added Nanban Teppo Samurai to christian rebel spawns
-Made Nanban Teppo Samurai receive xp bonus from Nanban Quarter
-Fixed recruitment issues caused by patch
-Deleted all MP unit references in stats*
-Removed Katana Ronin, changed into Naginata Ronin
-Adjusted Ronin stats and abilities to match other units' changes
-Added Yumi Ronin to more rebel spawns besides ikki
-Fixed icon for Yumi Ronin (w/ JFC's)
-Fixed misnamed archer pirates
-Added patch-compatible buildings effects junction table
-Lowered overly high upkeeps for Hattori units
-All Ronin recruitment time is only 1 turn, not 2, but have higher cost/upkeep
-Ronin groups now have same unit numbers as samurai
-No-Dachi Ronin given 4 unit limit
-Ikko Ikki now cannot recruit normal samurai, only ronin (hence no non-sohei cavalry)
-Ikko Ikki have increased troop numbers for both foot sohei and ashigaru (but now only 20 more, not 40)
-Related to above, ikki special unit stats otherwise the same as other factions (except for below)
-Related to above, both sohei and ashigaru ikki have higher costs/upkeep (but now only 25 more, not 50)
-Made Kyuba Sohei recruitable with Jodo Shinshu Temples
-Added new Ikko Ikki unit versions (Naginata Ashigaru, Yari Sohei, and Teppo Sohei)
-Fixed missing dipslay name for Ikko Ikki Naginata Sohei
-Fixed Hattori being able to recruit standard naginata samurai and not only their special version
-Fixed incorrect entries in some Ikko Ikki uniforms tables
-Fix campaign movement speed for ships on Darth version
-Added 2.1 DMS upgrade content for Darth version

*Note: You should still always remove the mod before playing MP to be safe

Basic version now uses user script as well. Make sure to remove any old versions, including old patch, before using. All versions have been tested and should be savegame compatible.

Re-download from links in first post on front page.

[General Malaise]

If you downloaded before the time of this post you might want to re-download as a very minor slip up got past me with Date and Shimazu clans being able to recruit both standard Naginata Samurai and their own special versions. Sorry for the hassle, but I am only one guy testing.