Second Age Mod Ideas

[Revelo]

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What I had in mind is a 2nd age TW centred around the early period of dunedanic colonisation of ME. One playable faction (dunedain explorers or whatever), you can start tech at a really low level since ME is undeveloped yet, custom-tailor it to make the player's life... interesting with all sorts of missions and choices etc. But I think it would require scripting to be done properly, as the TW engine on its own isn't built for exactly the kind of mission-driven campaign I have in mind.


And I am really derailing this thread.

Can we get a thread on this then? Because a Second Age: Total War would be something I'd be really interested in playing.

Thinking about it, you would already have established Dwarven Kingdoms, a few Elvish havens and an established Sauron in Mordor but the Edain would only have Numenor at the moment untill they send ships to explore the coasts of Middle-earth. Hobbits would not have appeared yet and Easterlings and Southorns would not have formed factions and empires yet.

Plus you could apply events and rebel factions then. So if you started battling Saurons forces as Numenor you could capture him and kick off Sauron corrupting them. Leading to a divide in the kingdom.

Just throwing ideas into the hat here

[TheDarkKnight]

There is already work being done on a Second Age mod though.

[Spike]

for M2TW and I also wait for it

[Aradan]

Posts split to new thread.


A mod for 2nd Age set in the entire map would require enormous amounts of work done, and there are barely any details in the lore. The current SATW mod is like that, aiming for the full map and a lot of factions. I find it an unrealistic goal without a big team of experienced modders.

I would limit it to Enedwaith, Minhiriath, S. Cardolan (up to Tharbad), Eregion, and the area between Greyfllod and Isen. And to the west, up to the Misty Mts. So you get Eregion, Moria, Gwaithuirim, Druedain, Dunedain, Edain...

[Revelo]

Posts split to new thread.


A mod for 2nd Age set in the entire map would require enormous amounts of work done, and there are barely any details in the lore. The current SATW mod is like that, aiming for the full map and a lot of factions. I find it an unrealistic goal without a big team of experienced modders.

I would limit it to Enedwaith, Minhiriath, S. Cardolan (up to Tharbad), Eregion, and the area between Greyfllod and Isen. And to the west, up to the Misty Mts. So you get Eregion, Moria, Gwaithuirim, Druedain, Dunedain, Edain...

I would have limited it to the map that DoM uses anyway at most, if that was even possible. Other issues might arise from the abudance of established characters that would somehow have to be accounted and included someone.

[Beorn]

I would limit it to Enedwaith, Minhiriath, S. Cardolan (up to Tharbad), Eregion, and the area between Greyfllod and Isen. And to the west, up to the Misty Mts. So you get Eregion, Moria, Gwaithuirim, Druedain, Dunedain, Edain...

U promised us to keep it secret, my preciousssss

[Thangaror]

I'd have limited it to Eriador set at around 1600 SA: The time when Annatar had revealed himself as Sauron and overran Eregion. You'd have to stem the tide with Gil-galads troops supported by Tar-Minastir's fleet starting with some small forts at the Baranduin mouth and Lond Daer. So three factions only: Elves (Lindon, Imladris, Laurelindorinan), Númenor and Sauron's forces. The Dwarves had closed the West Gate of Moria, so no Dwarves. Though you'd could add some 'wild men' or split the Elves into three factions. But that woulda be weird.

Or to the old CI map (Gondor, Harad, Mordor), somewhat extended to the south, during the time the Númenóreans started colonizing this area.

[Revelo]

Having it in the north and west halves of Middle-earth might work, although I could never work out where exactly Numenor was positioned in the geography of Middle-earth.

So that would give us a nice balance of Elven and Dwarven regions, although Mannish regions would be rather small and scattered as to my knowledge the only major one would be that of Numenor.

In fact, how many factions could we have? Would we need to create seperate Elven and Dwarven factions to bolster the roster at all? We have Eregion and Lindon avaliable for the Elves for that potion of the land and Kazad-dum and Gundabad for the Dwarves.

[Elphir of Dol Amroth]

So that would give us a nice balance of Elven and Dwarven regions, although Mannish regions would be rather small and scattered as to my knowledge the only major one would be that of Numenor.

There were quite a lot of relatives of the Edain (mostly related to the House of Beorn) living in Eriador at the time. Also, in Mihiriath and Enedwaith there were relatives of the House of Haleth. And of course there were also the Druedain.

In fact, how many factions could we have? Would we need to create seperate Elven and Dwarven factions to bolster the roster at all?

If you want it to happen in the north-western part of Middle-earth you can have: Men of Eriador, Numenor (could be seperated into King's Men and the Faithfull if you put the date of the mod at the late Second Age), Elves (Lorien, Rivendell, Lindon, Eregion, also depending on the date of the mod), Dwarves (Khazad-dum, Ered Luin, Gundabad, but it's better to combine them into one faction), Hillmen of Rhudaur (not really important), Men of Enedwaith/Minhiriath, Druedain, Mordor, Orcs of the Mountains, Lossoth (not really important).

But making a lot of factions takes time, it's better to only have a few factions, to save time and ensure that the few factions you have are really completed 100%.

[Aradan]

Number and name of factions depends on the extent of the map and the timeframe you're covering... Pick a combo. Keep in mind, the more factions, the more cultures and the bigger the map (in terms of regions), the more likely a mod will never see the light of day.

U promised us to keep it secret, my preciousssss

Whoops. I did? Sorry... At least I didn't reaveal the plan for 7th Age Total War: WW2.

[Revelo]

Number and name of factions depends on the extent of the map and the timeframe you're covering... Pick a combo. Keep in mind, the more factions, the more cultures and the bigger the map (in terms of regions), the more likely a mod will never see the light of day.

Whoops. I did? Sorry... At least I didn't reaveal the plan for 7th Age Total War: WW2.

Damn, what traits would Hitler have? Orc-like? Charismatic speaker?

[Beorn]

Whoops. I did? Sorry... At least I didn't reaveal the plan for 7th Age Total War: WW2.

Now u just did

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Revelo]

Well we could make it a micro-campaign which is selectable in FATW. A shorter timeframe and fewer factions but something which can be picked up and played easily. Would not have any bearing on the main mod at all.

Maybe have it set from roughly 500SA or thereabouts, so things have been somewhat established but the age is still young.

[Aradan]

I doubt you can make a provincial campaign in FATW that belongs to another period. The only thing one can change in a provincial campaign is the map and the traits. You'd be stuck with the same text, models, skins, 2d, coding, all of which have been made to fit the 4th age and the needs of our campaign, and we're pushing a lot of things to their limits, so there's no space for manoeuvring.

In order for a Second Age (mini-)mod to work and be of good quality, you'd need a new modfolder, so you can change everything that's necessary and make it fit the era.

[Revelo]

I doubt you can make a provincial campaign in FATW that belongs to another period. The only thing one can change in a provincial campaign is the map and the traits. You'd be stuck with the same text, models, skins, 2d, coding, all of which have been made to fit the 4th age and the needs of our campaign, and we're pushing a lot of things to their limits, so there's no space for manoeuvring.

In order for a Second Age (mini-)mod to work and be of good quality, you'd need a new modfolder, so you can change everything that's necessary and make it fit the era.

And that is where my skills end. I've done modding for Morrowind, Warcraft 3 and Age of Mythology but not RTW. I can happily throw ideas out there and write stories and ideas down but thats really about it in this context.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Wouldn't first age be far more epic?? Who's up for some Nirnaeth Arnoediad style action?

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

Wouldn't that almost be the same as making a mod about the 1st World War?

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

No. It was a bit more fluid, and had huge battles. Too bad Rome can't render millions of men (and orcs) on the battlefield.

[Thangaror]

First Age is difficult due to Dragons, Balrogs, Sauron, Werewolves and the uberness of High Elven regiments.
Also because of the limited economy. There was but Angband in the north and maybe some smaller outposts of Morgoth's. There were but a few major settlements of Elves and men, all the war would take place in the very north of the map, you'd need events to be triggered and everyone would have to be allied against Morgoth. Not really suited for a Total War game.


But because of that hint Palantír gave me in another thread about the usage of slings in Middle-earth, I just reread the short story of Tal-Elmar in HoME Vol. XII: It depicts the coming of the Númenóreans to ME in the Dark Ages in the eyes of the tribes that lived there. It's pretty fascinating and would really serve well for a mod. The tale is set near the mouths of either Isen, Lefnui or Morthond, either during the Dark Ages (~2000 SA) or some time before or after Akkalabêth, though the Dark Ages are more likely.

Still I found it quite confusing, how many people actually play a role in this tale and who they were: There are the people to which Tal-Elmar belongs (some ancestors of the Dunlendings or the Oathbreakers, respectively remnants or descendants of the First Age's Easterlings), the Númenóreans (called Go-hilleg), the "wild men of the woods and hills" (Drúedain perhaps) and also "the cruel people of the East" which had lighter skin and hair than Tal-Elmar's people, were taller, less heavy-built and more beautiful.
First I thought these were númenórean settlers but somehow it seems they were a different people (or maybe it's just because Tal-Elmar didn't notice the relationsship between those people and the Númenóreans). If anyone ever read this story (Aradan, Éorl?), maybe you folks know what Tolkien was talking about.

[Finrod Felagund]

First I thought these were númenórean settlers but somehow it seems they were a different people (or maybe it's just because Tal-Elmar didn't notice the relationsship between those people and the Númenóreans). If anyone ever read this story (Aradan, Éorl?), maybe you folks know what Tolkien was talking about.

Backing up Aradan, I always got the impression they were other Numenoreans, Kings Men essentially.

First Age is difficult due to Dragons, Balrogs, Sauron, Werewolves and the uberness of High Elven regiments.
Also because of the limited economy. There was but Angband in the north and maybe some smaller outposts of Morgoth's. There were but a few major settlements of Elves and men, all the war would take place in the very north of the map, you'd need events to be triggered and everyone would have to be allied against Morgoth. Not really suited for a Total War game.

I had an idea for a First Age mini-mod, set at the start of the Battle of Sudden Flame. I was going to keep it simple - no Dragons, Balrogs, other Maiar or Ents - with just a simple Free Peoples vs. Morgoth campaign. I think it'd be fairly straightforward to implement with a few alterations to FATW, the new strat map of Beleriand being the biggest obstacle to tackle. I didn't get very far though as it was more a learning exercise for me and I ended up travelling instead. I'm probably (in many months when I have time) going to focus on an Emberverse: Total War mini-mod instead, borrowing heavily from the works of the FATW & NI teams (Thankyou Aradan & I will be PM'ing MoN in just a minute...).

I've not the first idea about modelling, so I couldn't introduce any new unit types not already in FATW, but I don't think the allies system would work against First Age: Total War. There was a 'nervous' friendliness between the Dwarves & Elves (didn't take much for them to come to blows over the Neckace of the Dwarves), the Green Elves were pretty isolationist, the Sons of Feanor were 'tolerated' by the greater part of the Noldor & disliked by almost all the Sindar. So essentially, all factions would have -600 against Morgoth & visa-versa, but there would be subtle other neutralities & grudges between the other Free Peoples.

The downside to my approach was that you don't quite get the epic-ness of the Elder Days but you do get to fight a losing battle across the plains of Nargothrond, and have the Sons of Feanor riding through Maglors Gap with Dwarven allies to defend against the hordes of Morgoth.

Anyone interested can find info on Emberverse: Total War here - http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...11#post9421711

And War of the Jewels: Total War here - http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=389758

Difficult, but, mainly because of Wlesmana's "discovery", possible.

Am I missing something?