A Palestinian state?

[Darsh]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The president of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, will be received Thursday, April 21 late afternoon by President Nicolas Sarkozy at the Elysee. He should seize this opportunity 'advice' on the steps to follow for the recognition of a Palestinian state by the European Union.
At the stalling of peace negotiations quickly ended after a brief revival in September 2010, Paris seems to consider a unilateral recognition. In recent years, several countries in South America did.
'This is a question which must reflect and which we think. And it will come in September or October, stressed the Foreign Minister, Alain Juppe. The community's goal is the creation of a Palestinian state in the fall, when the UN General Assembly in New York.
DIFFERENCES
But this schedule is threatened by deep disagreements between Israelis and Palestinians, particularly on the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Differences of approach also exist between the great powers. A ministerial meeting of the Quartet (Russia, EU, UN, USA) on the Middle East, scheduled April 15, has been postponed at the request of Washington, while the Europeans hoped to set the 'parameters' of a final settlement, including borders and security.
The Palestinian Authority had requested last week in the U.S. to take a clear position on the Palestinian state and on the 1967 borders [before the Six Day War, ed] with East Jerusalem as its capital. "

http://beta.fr.news.yahoo.com/france...111517572.html

For or against a Palestinian state?

[Heavy Weapons Guy]

For!

[Imperial]

What an original thread.

[Ataegina]

for ! its time to have two states living in peace and having mutual benefits !

[Menelik_I]

for ! its time to have two states living in peace and having mutual benefits !

The Palestinians want Peace ?

What an original thread.

It sure won't descend on how the IDF recruit eat children fro breakfast

[Plan C]

The Palestinians want Peace ?

Well done.

[Dr. Croccer]

The Palestinians want Peace ?

I thought that was quite obvious when even Hamas offered Israel massive concessions and it was refused.

But since you clearly know the collective opinions of more than 10 milion people, thats irrelevant.

[Justice and Mercy]

I thought that was quite obvious when even Hamas offered Israel massive concessions and it was refused.

Why, exactly, should Israel be in favor of allowing her enemies to organize themselves?

Concede nothing. Conquest and apartheid should be Israel's immediate goal (along with the immediate destruction of Iran's growing nuclear capabilities, both through bombings of facilities and assassinations of scientists) Allow for potential annexation of course, once the rockets stop flying and children no longer have bombs strapped onto them.

EDIT: And we (Americans) should help them to whatever extent we can without exposing American servicemen to danger. Provide weaponry, intelligence, and air/missile support if necessary.

[Sir Pignans]

Ok, lets try and be reasonable about this, and have a proper discussion.

Why, exactly, should Israel be in favor of allowing her enemies to organize themselves?

Why? Well, for a number of reasons, firstly a more organized enemy is much easier to take out, it would give Hamas supposed legitimacy and let their leaders come into the open, allowing Israel to bomb them/take them out much easier should Hamas ever resort to violence again, and the second reason is, a more organised foe is a foe that is much easier to negotiate with. It would allow Israel to make reasonable deals with said organisation without loss of national prestige or Israeli lives (For the subjgation of Hamas violently would cause many Israeli deaths). Those are just some reasons, another would be to rapidly increase Israels standing within the world, dealing and making deals with a previously unaccepted organistation? It would show Israel puts peace before itself, and would lead to many benefits, such as increased tourism (Israel would no longer be seen as a 'warzone').

Concede nothing. Conquest and apartheid should be Israel's immediate goal (along with the immediate destruction of Iran's growing nuclear capabilities, both through bombings of facilities and assassinations of scientists) Allow for potential annexation of course, once the rockets stop flying and children no longer have bombs strapped onto them.

Conquest or surrounding regions would be a terrible solution for Israel, as would any apartheid policies they bring in, it would decrease trade (The UN would likely bring in resolutions against Israel as a result of the wars needed to facilitate conquest) which could be disastrous for Israel, this combined with possible arms embargos would drastically decrease Israels defense abilities (Iron dome project would suffer heavily without American funding, and refusal of F-35s would lead to the equalization of the IDF airforce with other arab airforces). Apartheid would also drastically decrease tourism due to the outrage that would be expressed in many countries, and could bring in additional resolutions. Now, you might say, oh, America would veto these, but I find that doubtful, America has it's own reputation to protect, and if it tried to subvert resolutions, other countries (Russia) might begin to arm Israel's enemies with more advanced systems (S-300 to Iran is what I'm thinking here, which would pratcically eiminate the possibility of an Israeli sneak attack on nuclear reactors).

EDIT: And we (Americans) should help them to whatever extent we can without exposing American servicemen to danger. Provide weaponry, intelligence, and air/missile support if necessary.

America already does that. The only thing it doesn't do is supply air and missile support, but then, Israel doesn't need those services yet.

[Tyler_the_Great]

Against. A Palestinian state will solve nothing.

[MehemtAli_Pasha]

while the Europeans hoped to set the 'parameters' of a final settlement, including borders and security.

i can see where this will go, the final settlement will not please either the Palestinians or Israel.

[JJDXB]

i can see where this will go, the final settlement will not please either the Palestinians or Israel.

At least one of them can't really complain about supposed unjust treatment... They've both been equally shot down...

The Palestinians want Peace ?

umm, yes??? I thought that was obvious...

[Menelik_I]

i can see where this will go, the final settlement will not please either the Palestinians or Israel.

The Europeans are such geniuses, letting them write the Borders nobody agrees on won't be a problem

I thought that was quite obvious when even Hamas offered Israel massive concessions and it was refused.

But since you clearly know the collective opinions of more than 10 milion people, thats irrelevant.

Has representative of the Palestinian people, Hamas has been generous : 5000 rockets, a school bus attacked, a Israeli soldier kidnapped all in exchange for the control of Gaza, electricity, water, fuel and being left unmolested.

I don't know the mind of all Palestinians, I do know both Hamas and Fatah knows what Palestinians ought to think, they kill anybody selling homes to Israelis, protesting against terrorist attacks or showing support to Israel .... they seems to be the ones in charge, I take them to their words.

ETA:

Borders negotiated with Israel, IDF provided security for both states and end to the Hate filled media brainwashing ... otherwise I head to my Bunker.

[Trey]

The Europeans are such geniuses, letting them write the Borders nobody agrees on won't be a problem




Has representative of the Palestinian people, Hamas has been generous : 5000 rockets, a school bus attacked, a Israeli soldier kidnapped all in exchange for the control of Gaza, electricity, water, fuel and being left unmolested.

I don't know the mind of all Palestinians, I do know both Hamas and Fatah knows what Palestinians ought to think, they kill anybody selling homes to Israelis, protesting against terrorist attacks or showing support to Israel .... they seems to be the ones in charge, I take them to their words.

ETA:

Borders negotiated with Israel, IDF provided security for both states and end to the Hate filled media brainwashing ... otherwise I head to my Bunker.

I'll avoid the rest of the garbage in your post, and focus on this. Nowhere in history has a blockade been considered being left "unmolested". But I'd love to see your reasoning.

[Menelik_I]

I'll avoid the rest of the garbage in your post, and focus on this. Nowhere in history has a blockade been considered being left "unmolested". But I'd love to see your reasoning.

There is a reason for the Blockade and the security fence, forget that and your Palestinian state will cause a bigger war.

[Ataegina]

The Palestinians want Peace ?




It sure won't descend on how the IDF recruit eat children fro breakfast

you clear just listen to what hamas say, and isn't rocket science to know that they dont speak on behalf of the palestinians, its fair to say the common palestinian wants peace, want normal life, bussiness etc.

beyond the tentacles of hamas you can find many palestinians wich have nothing against israelis and vice-versa, so its clearly stupid to use a term refering to a whole people when the issue is tiny fraction of them under the banner of hamas and other radical jihadist groups.

better to be two, than one in constant war. or in another words its better a fragile peace than the most fair war.

lol yes IDF official breakfast cereal for soldiers are "babyflakes"

[Dr. Croccer]

Has representative of the Palestinian people, Hamas has been generous : 5000 rockets, a school bus attacked, a Israeli soldier kidnapped all in exchange for the control of Gaza, electricity, water, fuel and being left unmolested.

And Israel has blockaded the Palestinian territories, launched incursions, committed war crimes, defied international opinion and laws, fired on protesters, colonised regions, kicked people out of their homes, indiscriminate retaliations and so on, and so on. But apparantly we should only care when Hamas does something bad.

At least Hamas has the excuse of being a volatile group that's trying to hold back the die-hards. Many of the rockets are fired by militants independently, it's not as if Abbas is ordering every single on of them. Add the various obscure die-hards and splinter groups that launch attacks as well.

[Treize]

Against. A Palestinian state will solve nothing.

Agreed.

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

Why on Earth would it solve nothing? As long as it's not a unilaterally declared pre-defined borders state, it would solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict!

[Incesticide]

For or against a Palestinian state?

Sure, as long as the Kurds, the Saharawis, Tibetans, Casamanche, Somalilandis, Chechnyans, Abkhazians, South Ossetians, and the Lakota Sioux get a state too.

Otherwise I'm in agreement with Menelik_I and Tyler