Issue about DX11 running on a DX10.0 only card, How do I rollback to DX10.0?

[hellas1]

Hi all,

Well, it's weird to me:

I have an Nvidia 260 GTX card that can only run DX 10.0 and not DX11.

My DXDIAG for both 32 & 64 bit is DX11 !

What the heck is going on?

Which version of DX am I really running and how do I roll back to DX 10?

Thanks,
Sweet hellas1.5

[Crazyeyesreaper]

your fine

DX11 supports DX11 DX10.1 and DX10 its just a newer api it wont hurt you or effect you in anyway shape or form.

just like DX9 games run on DX 11 etc it just means your OS which has DX11 by default is saying yes i have this DX, your gpu just uses DX10, all this means is in games that use DX11 you cant use DX11 effects but otherwise any game that runs DX9 DX10 will run fine and so will DX11 games as well.

biggest key here is dont worry its normal, dont freak out its nothing serious.

[hellas1]

@Crazyeyesreaper,

THANK YOU! for the clarification.

I have CFS 3 and I'm running Over Flanders Fields and I was told to "install DirectX 9" but
now there is no need to!

Thanks again,
BTW +Rep is coming your way......
hellas1.5

[Jaketh]

your NOT running DX11, your running DX10, your card wont try and run something it doesnt support

[Crazyeyesreaper]

actually wrong DX11 has innate fall backs to DX10 hardware meaning if the game is coded properly DX11 is what the game engine is running but it auto falls back to DX10 code paths,

DX11 was coded so that a developer can code 1 path aka DX11 and it will systematically use the codepath supported by the hardware, so in general his GPU might only support DX10 and older

but his operating system is using DX11, it just defaults to previous DX generations much like DX8.1 gpus can run in DX9 but will only support the feature set it was ment to. That said in reality he really is running DX11 he just cant use all its features. So its a bit misleading but he does have DX11 he just cant support it at the hardware level currently in terms of Shader Model 5.0 and tessellation.

[Top-Tier-Tech]

All games that I know of have a DX11 option that can only be enabled if your system has a DX11 GPU. I do not believe you are correct about your above statement, if you have a source for this information I would very much like to see it.

[PoleCat]

All games that I know of have a DX11 option that can only be enabled if your system has a DX11 GPU. I do not believe you are correct about your above statement, if you have a source for this information I would very much like to see it.

He's speaking in general terms of the backwards compatibility of DX through all versions. Since older cards may only support up to DX 9.0 it still shouldn't matter if he has DX11 on that system - it should still recognize an old version of DX.

The problem though is that I've seen quite a few problems with newer systems and GPUs that have trouble with older DX9 games and have to have the DX9 codec installed manually in order to work. I was under the impression that there was a break in backwards compatibility between DX9 and DX 10. I could be wrong though as I'm hardly an expert on the subject.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

DX 10 card cant run DX11 effects but DX11 is coded that if a developer is willing to they have a quick switch if you will, long as they have the shaders compiled and effects

in say shader 4,0 4.1 5.0 for example it can turn off effects automatically at the hardware level sadly developers are lazy we wont see this happen anytime soon

think of it this way in shogun 2 we can manually select the shader model in reality DX11 can do that on its own

The op's operating system is DX11 by default he cant make it DX10 he cant make it DX9, his hardware might not fully support it but DX11 is still on by default and in theory running a DX9 shader DX10 shader with DX11 aka using the DX11 api code it can improve performance and increase frame rate still needs DX11 gpu though. Im a bit drunk but.

basically my point above was the OP is running DX11 as if he wasnt then that would really up Windows 7 his hardware support is only DX10. He can only get DX10 features but his OS is running DX11 just like XP runs DX9 and Vista originally ran DX10, the OS has it built in but the hardware at hand can only use features its made to support. I probably didnt touch any of those points at all. i should probably log off before i get further intoxicated. I have a bad tendency to get drunk try and answer questions and get lost in what im trying to say... its a bad habit. Mr Crusty can attest to that on my behalf this wont be the first or last time knowing myself.

:toast:

[irishron]

@Crazyeyereaper, I beg to differ with you some.

I run Win 7, 64bit Pro. Dx11, right. I have found the hard way that it makes no difference if you are running Vista or 7 and the newest dx11 cards available, if you want to play RTW/BI/Alex, M2TW/Kingdoms, ETW and NTW, dx9 must be installed, period.

Any other games on the market I don't know because I don't have the time to play them.

[Top-Tier-Tech]

really cause i didnt need to install DX9 when i downloaded the DX11 platform originally on Vista all those games worked flawlessly still do to this day and ive never installed DX9,i just skip the DX installer

if you want to play RTW/BI/Alex, M2TW/Kingdoms, ETW and NTW, dx9 must be installed, period.

I believe what he was saying is that DX9 must be installed on the system, it's not like you can solely have DX11 and have everything run properly simply with "backward compatibility" without the DX9 runtime libraries.

Similar to Polecat I am no expert on this subject, but that's what I think he meant...

[Top-Tier-Tech]

What I find interesting is how game like Crysis 2 and Shogun 2 are built with DX9, and then the developers are simply adding DX11 support in a patch after release. I should think it would make more sense to build the game in DX11 in the first place if backwards compatibility is automatically implemented.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

really cause i didnt need to install DX9 when i downloaded the DX11 platform originally on Vista all those games worked flawlessly still do to this day and ive never installed DX9,i just skip the DX installer, and when ive had DX11 crap out *overclocked to far and borked a few windows components* using the web installer out installed DX11 and by extension all other DX forms as well that are still supported.

and correct ChaobSiroc it WOULD make more sense the problem is we need a game engine coded ground up for DX 11 with that feature in mind, example Frostbite engine used for Battlefield 3 works this way and as far as i know will be the first game to do so. you gotta remember most of the game engines used today are old as .

Call of Duty Black Ops is based off of code written by Id Tech in 1999 for an example.

Until game engines are written ground up for DX11 were stuck with port jobs, its also why DX11 dosent offer a performance increase when lower shaders are used in theory Anti Aliasing and soft shadows are less performance intensive in DX11 then they are in DX9 or 10, same goes for DX9 shader model 3.0 running it with DX11 code results in a performance increase but only when coded properly write now its not. Coding with DX11 in mind also means a CPU can use more then 1 thread to feed graphics cards.

good example of DX11 multi threading working better would be imagine 4 gpus 4 cpu cores but only 1 thread on 1 core is allowed to send info to the gpus, its a bottleneck DX9 and DX10 both share that bottleneck DX11 dosent, but again it needs to be coded ground up and it hasnt.

So with that in mind whats more cost effective to a developer?

graft on DX11 to a DX9 engine or recode an entire engine, in an industry where the average game engines base code and optimizations are nearly 5-7 years old with some games at the 12 year old mark. and now im rambling and off topic again...

[Crazyeyesreaper]

in that case correct he has to have other DX installed but there auto installed with the newest Direct X, otherwise there would be a DX9.0 DX9.0b 9.0c dx 10 dx10.1 dx11 installers that all have to be run 1 at a time in order like patches for a game. the OP has DX11 and by default DX9 and DX9 runtime libraries are included with DX11.always have been since the release of Windows 7. The only time i can think of where its possible for this to not be the case is when the Direct X 11 platform beta updates was made available where DX at the time was only avaible in 10.1 via the installer and you needed to do a work around to get the beta seperate.

[Top-Tier-Tech]

the OP has DX11 and by default DX9 and DX9 runtime libraries are included with DX11.always have been since the release of Windows 7. The only time i can think of where its possible for this to not be the case is when the Direct X 11 platform beta updates was made available where DX at the time was only avaible in 10.1 via the installer and you needed to do a work around to get the beta seperate.

Yeah, in this regard I am in complete agreement.

[irishron]

I have been dealing with this personally since Vista version 1.0, dx10 version released with it. Before I could get Rome to play, I had to forcefeed dx9 down Vista's throat. I don't believe you were around for that party, then.

I have had too many cases come through the Tech forums of the Total War games not running worth a damn on Vista and 7 until dx9 was installed. Steam games do the installing so the average user does not even know it until somethin' aint right. Power users and computer builders have it figured out. Talk ti Iscaran at the .com support forums if you don't believe me.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

well im not a common user i know how to google Direct X and get to the web runtime installer that installs all thats needed for DX to function properly

and that said most Total war game issues ive come across are from 2 different issues

1 Nvidia not properly running Shogun or Medieval from geforce 8 series onward
2 dual gpu systems causing issues example ati gpus in crossfire cause flickering on the mini map in Rome a simple tick in the Cat AI control panel fixes it ive no doubt other less experienced users would encounter issues, but i dont pay attention to those unless im being nice or im getting paid. In this case the OP isnt having those issues, we are all extremely off topic and i really really need to put the whisky away anybody want some? so i can stop drinking lol

[irishron]

well im not a common user i know how to google Direct X and get to the web runtime installer that installs all thats needed for DX to function properly

and that said most Total war game issues ive come across are from 2 different issues

1 Nvidia not properly running Shogun or Medieval from geforce 8 series onward
2 dual gpu systems causing issues example ati gpus in crossfire cause flickering on the mini map in Rome a simple tick in the Cat AI control panel fixes it ive no doubt other less experienced users would encounter issues, but i dont pay attention to those unless im being nice or im getting paid. In this case the OP isnt having those issues, we are all extremely off topic and i really really need to put the whisky away anybody want some? so i can stop drinking lol

Now, this I agree to. I used to use Yahoo, Tucows and a few others before Google. There is not too much I can't find if needed including playing twenty questions with Microsoft if needed.

Have a drink of the whiskey for me. I gave it up 28 years ago.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

yea i really should quit, its a bad habit almost as bad as smoking which i did manage to quit.. sigh just what can i say cant resist the good stuff. lol

[Top-Tier-Tech]

yea i really should quit, its a bad habit almost as bad as smoking which i did manage to quit.. sigh just what can i say cant resist the good stuff. lol

Just think of all the money you will be able to put into your PC over time instead of whiskey while you're quitting

[Crazyeyesreaper]

haha the number of times i blow up hardware i kinda need to drink otherwise id go crazy, like my name, blew up a corsair 850HX and fried my 790FX, both have been replaced finally but yea... drinking = i dont go nuts. at the same time your right if i didnt drink id have more awesome faster hardware... its a conflict of interests... and it sucks