(WIP) MOS Expansion Project - Ancillary Overhaul

[Rora Lion]

Great work MM as always!!

[Minas Moth]

Great work MM as always!!

thnx rora, as always!

[Jean=A=Luc]

This looks great but am I correct in understanding that the choice of fountain is simply an aesthetic one or is there more to it?

[Minas Moth]

This looks great but am I correct in understanding that the choice of fountain is simply an aesthetic one or is there more to it?

good question. as you probably know, game doesn't allow to use building_present or building_present_min_level conditions in recruitment qeues. that causes ctd everytime. therfore fountains were added as place where you actually train units but they are tied to barracks... first fountain is buildable only after city barracks are built (and so on for each upgrade of barracks). cavalry stables aren't disturbed. archery ranges do work differently tough. Eldar Archers are trainable in fountains (not ranges) but they are available only after huge barracks event (this was my choice 'cause i felt that having them already after large barracks event is to soon for such elite unit)...

hope you like the answer, if you have more questions just ask

[flopsies]

Aye silver and blue perhaps, to represent the colours of the old Noldor lords of Fingolin with sons + Finfarins sons? Arn't really that many left of Fëanors people....

Agree with you. Since the mod is named Noldor on The March, it would make sense to make them the colors of the original Noldor houses.

[Minas Moth]

Hi

i like this very much, this choice between two unit types give a personal note to the elves for me (i hope you can understant this^^^)

are the armor and weapon upgrades also visible ?

greets

no, armour upgrades aren't visible as they are not visible in original golden units... they do all recieve one armor upgrade but no visual improvment when this happens...

[Captain Zoran]

Descendants of Fingolfin were almos entirely wipped out during the Fall of Beleriand. The only remaining member of Fingolfin's house is in Third Age Elrond. He is member of that house only by birth but was adopted in Feanor's house later. For those units to march in Middle-Earth you'll have to wait until War of the Silmarils is released... Also, if i had asked what textures would you all prefer i think we would still be debating and this thing would never be finished...

Well, it's true that almost the entire Fingolfin's house was wiped out, but were their subjects completly wiped out aswell? Unless Im going out on a limb here, in that case please correct me, but wasn't mainly the elves who settled in Eregion of Noldor origin, ie the survivors of Fingolfins/Fëanors house-subjects? Perhaps just have them march to war in their ancient masters colours? But it's your choice of course, im merly making suggestions that I myself would wish to see, because Im terrible at coding and texturing

Anyways, keep up the good job mate

[Minas Moth]

Well, it's true that almost the entire Fingolfin's house was wiped out, but were their subjects completly wiped out aswell? Unless Im going out on a limb here, in that case please correct me, but wasn't mainly the elves who settled in Eregion of Noldor origin, ie the survivors of Fingolfins/Fëanors house-subjects? Perhaps just have them march to war in their ancient masters colours? But it's your choice of course, im merly making suggestions that I myself would wish to see, because Im terrible at coding and texturing

Anyways, keep up the good job mate

well, celebrimbor was certainly of feanor's house (he denounced his father's crimes committed against other noldor). i don't state that entire noldor population was wiped out. but i'm sceptical about their ability to field an army by themselves. in second and third age most of the elves in Middle-Earth were Sindar origin not Noldor. Noldor that did remain in ME became lords of sindar because their power and wisdom were far greater then that possesed by sindar.

what remained of noldor after first age was under rule of gil-galad in lindon but they have suffered casulties in war with sauron and many of those who survived left the ME... so i think that there is no way that noldor armies were possible in ME in the third age... if they were i would consider of adding them as such, altough i don't think that Tolkien anywhere mentioned that each house had distinctive armour or eqiupment. i know that their banner swere mentioned several times but armies wearing the colours of noldor houses weren't (correct me if i'm wrong)...

well, i didn't know how to script or texture edit either but i learned because i realised that if you want to see something in game you should do it yourself... so my suggestion to you is start somwhere and see where it leads you.

[Captain Zoran]

well, celebrimbor was certainly of feanor's house (he denounced his father's crimes committed against other noldor). i don't state that entire noldor population was wiped out. but i'm sceptical about their ability to field an army by themselves. in second and third age most of the elves in Middle-Earth were Sindar origin not Noldor. Noldor that did remain in ME became lords of sindar because their power and wisdom were far greater then that possesed by sindar.

what remained of noldor after first age was under rule of gil-galad in lindon but they have suffered casulties in war with sauron and many of those who survived left the ME... so i think that there is no way that noldor armies were possible in ME in the third age... if they were i would consider of adding them as such, altough i don't think that Tolkien anywhere mentioned that each house had distinctive armour or eqiupment. i know that their banner swere mentioned several times but armies wearing the colours of noldor houses weren't (correct me if i'm wrong)...

well, i didn't know how to script or texture edit either but i learned because i realised that if you want to see something in game you should do it yourself... so my suggestion to you is start somwhere and see where it leads you.

Well, I realised that after your reply to my post that I wasn't going to expecting a Noldor army taking the field, but atleast to see their colours represented in some kind of unit (maybe generals bodyguard?) would be nice, but as Ive stated before its not my choice to make.

The houses were propably represented by motifs or banners. Although I find it hard to belive that all elves should be wearing similar, standardised armour, as shown in PJs interpertation of the Last Alliance's battles, I do belive although a similar fashion of armourtype is propably correct, the colours propably more or less being that of their masters or houses. So in that way, your interpetation is completly correct in my eyes.

And I wish that I had the magic of the amazing modders of this mod to command, but alas I do neither have the time nor the energy to devote myself to it. So instead, I am left to wage mental wars with modders to make them succumb to my will

[flopsies]

Two things
1. When are we going to see pics of fountain of the sun?
2. Like a lot of people here, you should incorporate some colors of the original Noldor houses. There are a few Noldor and their descendants left, like Galadriel, Elrond, Earendil (technichally), and Aragorn (technichally). And the banners of the High Elves in TATW are blue and whitish. I would like to see the blue and white of my favorite house, The House of Fingolfin.

[Minas Moth]

Although I find it hard to belive that all elves should be wearing similar, standardised armour, as shown in PJs interpertation of the Last Alliance's battles, I do belive although a similar fashion of armourtype is propably correct, the colours propably more or less being that of their masters or houses

from my understanding of silmarillion noldor armor of the first age (and after that) was standardised when it comes to way of making it. it was mostly chainmail, leather and stuff like that (apsolutley no plate armour reference can be found there). they are represented as wearing either white or silver armour (which are neutral colours of the metal) and the only thing they could probably be distingiushed were the cloaks or something like that. also it is said that they were wearing high helmets. how exactly they should look like? no information. sao TATW Team took PJ's interpretation of Noldor armour (accuracy is prone to debate) to use in this game and i followed their path... it is hard to make units different in colors only... you are bound to use HR (hidden resources) or building slots which can be used far better then to just add somew new textures to the units... yes, the banners were the main recognition device....

Two things
1. When are we going to see pics of fountain of the sun?
2. Like a lot of people here, you should incorporate some colors of the original Noldor houses. There are a few Noldor and their descendants left, like Galadriel, Elrond, Earendil (technichally), and Aragorn (technichally). And the banners of the High Elves in TATW are blue and whitish. I would like to see the blue and white of my favorite house, The House of Fingolfin.

1) they were uploaded but photobucket removed them, i'll add them later probably...
2) I SHOULDN'T DO ANYTHING, i already did my part of work on this... and i'm not obliged to listen to people proposals. the thing you are proposing is subjective and every member of this forum would surley have a wish of his one on this matter and i'm not here to fulfill others people wishes. Galadriel is queen of Lorien so adding her banner to HE isn't gamewise nor lorewise at this point, Elros is descendant of Earendil and he isn't represented as memeber of elven houses and neither is Aragorn (the men don't hold any claim over the elven lords).

[Minas Moth]

!!!ANNOUNCMENT!!! You will probably notice that my units don't have any voices assigned to them. this was done on purpose... so if any of you out there knows how to and is willing to help me do the voices for those units (it will be copy-paste job) but i don't know what and how to do that; is more then welcome to pm me so we can work out the details...

thnx

this issue has been adressed and solved; read the OP

[Captain Zoran]

from my understanding of silmarillion noldor armor of the first age (and after that) was standardised when it comes to way of making it. it was mostly chainmail, leather and stuff like that (apsolutley no plate armour reference can be found there). they are represented as wearing either white or silver armour (which are neutral colours of the metal) and the only thing they could probably be distingiushed were the cloaks or something like that. also it is said that they were wearing high helmets. how exactly they should look like? no information. sao TATW Team took PJ's interpretation of Noldor armour (accuracy is prone to debate) to use in this game and i followed their path... it is hard to make units different in colors only... you are bound to use HR (hidden resources) or building slots which can be used far better then to just add somew new textures to the units... yes, the banners were the main recognition device....

Aye, I belive there was a degree of standardisation of armours, but not across all the forces of the Eldar, kingdoms and different houses of both Sindar and Noldor equppied differently and had their own respective smiths and tactics. Not the general RTW Clone Army that PJ interperets it as.

-...Earendil is descendant of Elros...-

Isn't it the other way around?

[Minas Moth]

Isn't it the other way around?

it is, i confused earendil for elendil... my mistake, but the logic is the same... even in the first age, elven and men houses were separeted even tough that was the time of greatest alliance of those races.

[Captain Zoran]

Aye indeed, was only confused by the names, otherwise I agree

[Nõwë]

Good work - nice to have more depth to the Elves, and ways to distinguish even similar units add to the whole roleplay/personal imagination aspect of the game, IMO.
Is it compatable with earlier versions of MoS (I'd like to use the extra regions)?

[Minas Moth]

Good work - nice to have more depth to the Elves, and ways to distinguish even similar units add to the whole roleplay/personal imagination aspect of the game, IMO.
Is it compatable with earlier versions of MoS (I'd like to use the extra regions)?

well it wasn't made for earlier versions... however it doesn't change any region or strat information so there should be no problem. however it is compatible with 5.2 modeldb file and export describe buildings/units file so it won't work with anything but MOS 5.2

[Nõwë]

I like a contradictory logic loop or a closed mathematical system sans external evidence as much as the next Elf but im unsure about the correct conclusion; is it "should be no problem" or "wont work with anything else"?

Also, i think the Captain's question, while somewhat ambiguous, may have been about the difference between the two Fountains; is there only a visual difference between the two? It might be interesting to for example have Sun units more aggressive (charge strength... Impetuous?) and Moon units more defensive (armour, shieldwall etc.) - just a thought.

[Minas Moth]

I like a contradictory logic loop or a closed mathematical system sans external evidence as much as the next Elf but im unsure about the correct conclusion; is it "should be no problem" or "wont work with anything else"?

sorry abou that, that was intentional cruelness from my part... haha... no it won't work with anything else. Export_desc_building/unit files are the most changede ones so there is no compatibility with anything else.

Also, i think the Captain's question, while somewhat ambiguous, may have been about the difference between the two Fountains; is there only a visual difference between the two? It might be interesting to for example have Sun units more aggressive (charge strength... Impetuous?) and Moon units more defensive (armour, shieldwall etc.) - just a thought.

Founatins actually train your units. the idea wasn't to add any special abilities or something like that. Idea was to have completly the same units (stat, abilities, weaknesses) but with different textures. to add, "aggresive or defensive styles" could ruin game balance. also, orcs hated both the sun and the moon so there is actually no difference there (they are bot lights) and when it comes to men and dwarves they aren't affected by night or day so elves shouldn't be either. this suggestion isn't bad but i'm afraid it could lead to some great problems and trouble for small result like that...

[Minas Moth]

New submod released; check the OP!