Not be condescending or anything

[Stealthorgasm]

But you guys sure do make a lot of assumptions for people who can't empathize with someone who is trying to develop a large game like shogun 2. I'm surprised at the amount of complaints regarding perfection upon release; at least that's what a lot of you seem to expect. I'm confident that no one here has worked and developed a game under a large company like CA for example. I don't really think you have any room to complain if you can't empathize.

/end rant

[amore555]

That's a massive cat you've got there

[Stealthorgasm]

That's a massive cat you've got there

It drinks all the tears that are shed from rage on this forum. In result, she acquires a significant amount of heft... from a liquid.

[Haru]

I agree with the OP, to an extent. As long as the complaints aren't meager ones that don't address current bugs and what not I don't see a problem with it, seeing as how there will be always people that complain about a game they play online, wherever you go.

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

**sigh** its always the new blokes who dont understand/misunderstand....ah well someone else can explain it


...it is a rather large cat though

[TotalWarker]

Both a good point from OP and also a large cat, two good things = rep

[Megalos]

But you guys sure do make a lot of assumptions for people who can't empathize with someone who is trying to develop a large game like shogun 2.

That doesn't make sense. Since when has empathy been a prerequsite for assumptions? What assumptions have been made? You know what assumption means I assume?

I'm waiting patiently for the next patch (would be nice to hear something from the devs on that issue), so i'm not too bothered atm about the patch as i'm currently enjoying the game. However, some people (quite rightly) are angry that they bought a game, that did not include the advertised contents. There is no assuming in that, and I can definetly see why they are justifyibly annoyed. Your post is just gong to inflame them even more, making the situation worse. I'd leave it here if you don't like all the "whine" posts.

[Stealthorgasm]

That doesn't make sense. Since when has empathy been a prerequsite for assumptions? What assumptions have been made? You know what assumption means I assume?

I'm waiting patiently for the next patch (would be nice to hear something from the devs on that issue), so i'm not too bothered atm about the patch as i'm currently enjoying the game. However, some people (quite rightly) are angry that they bought a game, that did not include the advertised contents. There is no assuming in that, and I can definetly see why they are justifyibly annoyed. Your post is just gong to inflame them even more, making the situation worse. I'd leave it here if you don't like all the "whine" posts.

People are making assumptions that CA are a horrible company for not releasing what they expected and they are making these assumptions when they have never experienced the working conditions under such a project.

Was that difficult to understand? Trying to be intellectually superior isn't effective when you over think things .

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

People are making assumptions that CA are a horrible company for not releasing what they expected and they are making these assumptions when they have never experienced the working conditions under such a project.

Was that difficult to understand? Trying to be intellectually superior isn't effective when you over think things .

did you even read my last post....?

clearly no

[Stealthorgasm]

did you even read my last post....?

clearly no

You're stilling missing out of the fact that you haven't developed any game(s). You don't know what the company/developers feel and experience throughout the years and what expectations they have to live up to. If you ever do develop a large scale game and stay with that company and develop a few more games, then tell me how it is.

[Megalos]

People are making assumptions that CA are a horrible company for not releasing what they expected and they are making these assumptions when they have never experienced the working conditions under such a project.

Was that difficult to understand? Trying to be intellectually superior isn't effective when you over think things .

That's not an assumption, that is their opinion, based on they haven't recieved the goods as advertised. What happens at CA and their working conditions are irrevelant. If you advertise a product and it's contents, when said customer buys that product, he/she expects to recieve what was advertised. Simple math really.

[nibelungvalesti]

People are making assumptions that CA are a horrible company for not releasing what they expected

not what we expected, what they TOLD us they were going to release, that makes all the difference.

[SonOfCrusader76]

People are making assumptions that CA are a horrible company for not releasing what they expected and they are making these assumptions when they have never experienced the working conditions under such a project.

Was that difficult to understand? Trying to be intellectually superior isn't effective when you over think things .

And people are also forgetting that a) CA gave us TW in the first place - which broke the endless C&C or Hex games cycle and b) following on from that, TW is massively ambitious in what it tries (and by and large succeeds) to do! It's not an FPS you know - there's a lot more to it than just running around shooting people.

Some people here deserve to be stuck with C&C or better still, Hex wargames.

[rob-a-dogg]

And people are also forgetting that a) CA gave us TW in the first place - which broke the endless C&C or Hex games cycle and b) following on from that, TW is massively ambitious in what it tries (and by and large succeeds) to do!

A) Because they created the franchise we should be silent when they do things we dont like?
B)I would say yes to the second half if it was amended to:

"TW is massively ambitious in what features it tries to get into its game (and by and large succeeds) to do!"

That is a legitimate statement I feel. Weather those features work or not is a completely different story.

[SonOfCrusader76]

A) Because they created the franchise we should be silent when they do things we dont like?
B)I would say yes to the second half if it was amended to:

"TW is massively ambitious in what features it tries to get into its game (and by and large succeeds) to do!"

That is a legitimate statement I feel. Weather those features work or not is a completely different story.

No - you see, if I amended it to your version, it wouldn't actually make sense.

The way I see it, CA are much better than some companies out there. Codemasters: we're still waiting for patch 2 for F1 2010 - a game that is absolutely dripping with potential - some fulfilled by the modders, but much left unfulfilled, and EA, from whom we're still awaiting patch 2 for Fifa 11 PC. Indeed, before Fifa 11 PC, EA fobbed the PC users off with a last gen PS2 engine! And then there are all the issues with Ubisoft games, from their nonsensical DRM (you always have to be connected to the internet to play - drop connection, dropped from game) to the fact that their games nearly always ship with far more bugs than TW does - most of which get fixed eventually by the devs and the modders.

[OTZ]

People are making assumptions that CA are a horrible company for not releasing what they expected and they are making these assumptions when they have never experienced the working conditions under such a project.

Was that difficult to understand? Trying to be intellectually superior isn't effective when you over think things .

I work on projects all the time in the finance industry. Sometimes there are similar projects that get re-run from time to time - and guess what our approach is? We strive to improve upon the perceived defficiencies of the last project.

What could be improved? What could work better next time? Do we need to include a larger working group? Were deadlines and expectations reasonable given what needed to be accomplished? etc etc.

I don't know how the "gaming industry" works, but my assumption is that there is probably a similar approach to projects in pretty much any industry. This is why I think people get bent out of shape when we see the same tired lines/excuses brought out by CA to explain away the same problems that persist with every single release. They over-promise, and under deliver. This is a problem.

It doesn't matter that Shogun is a great game (IMO it's the best since M2TW), CA has once again fallen into the same pitfalls that ultimately lead people to generate bad perceptions of the company and its PR reps.

The DX11 issue, while minor to many people, is just such an example. But even then, it's not necessarily that the game doesn't have DX11, it's that CA said we would have it in 2-4 weeks but have once again gone back on their "word". They could have promised anything at all - it could have been hand-delivered cheetos for all the public really cares - it's the fact that something was promised and that something was not delivered as expected.

Will we be happy when that patch comes - absolutely! Will the "perception" that CA "lies" still persist - absolutely. CA consistenly shoots itself in the foot, and it's unfortunate that guys like Sensei, Craig, etc are left holding the bag and having to do their best to explain away missed deadlines/expectations. The damage has been done though, which makes their work all the more challenging.

Personally, I think the lesson CA should have learned along time ago is to never ever make a deadline public knowledge. Their jobs would be much easier, and the risk of negative impact to their image would be reduced.

By the way, where the hell is that DX11 patch you promised us!?!

[Stealthorgasm]

I work on projects all the time in the finance industry. Sometimes there are similar projects that get re-run from time to time - and guess what our approach is? We strive to improve upon the perceived defficiencies of the last project.

What could be improved? What could work better next time? Do we need to include a larger working group? Were deadlines and expectations reasonable given what needed to be accomplished? etc etc.

I don't know how the "gaming industry" works, but my assumption is that there is probably a similar approach to projects in pretty much any industry. This is why I think people get bent out of shape when we see the same tired lines/excuses brought out by CA to explain away the same problems that persist with every single release. They over-promise, and under deliver. This is a problem.

It doesn't matter that Shogun is a great game (IMO it's the best since M2TW), CA has once again fallen into the same pitfalls that ultimately lead people to generate bad perceptions of the company and its PR reps.

The DX11 issue, while minor to many people, is just such an example. But even then, it's not necessarily that the game doesn't have DX11, it's that CA said we would have it in 2-4 weeks but have once again gone back on their "word". They could have promised anything at all - it could have been hand-delivered cheetos for all the public really cares - it's the fact that something was promised and that something was not delivered as expected.

Will we be happy when that patch comes - absolutely! Will the "perception" that CA "lies" still persist - absolutely. CA consistenly shoots itself in the foot, and it's unfortunate that guys like Sensei, Craig, etc are left holding the bag and having to do their best to explain away missed deadlines/expectations. The damage has been done though, which makes their work all the more challenging.

Personally, I think the lesson CA should have learned along time ago is to never ever make a deadline public knowledge. Their jobs would be much easier, and the risk of negative impact to their image would be reduced.

By the way, where the hell is that DX11 patch you promised us!?!

Well, in the end they did provide us with a completed game with a few problems. I mean how could there not be problems with such a complex game. Some games are getting more and more complex over the years and it takes more time to develop. I'm not %100 clear on the DX11 problem, but I don't think they guaranteed dx11. It was recommended on the box. It is hard to justify benevolence with a company now-a-days, but I don't think CA would screw themselves on purpose considering that they know less people will respect them. There is a reason dx11 is being delayed. They aren't doing it in spite of us.

Also, DX11 is coming out in the first week of May apparently.

[igotballsofsteel]

I mean how could there not be problems with such a complex game.

Its only a game ... there not sending people on mars .

[OTZ]

Well, in the end they did provide us with a completed game with a few problems. I mean how could there not be problems with such a complex game. Some games are getting more and more complex over the years and it takes more time to develop. I'm not %100 clear on the DX11 problem, but I don't think they guaranteed dx11. It was recommended on the box. It is hard to justify benevolence with a company now-a-days, but I don't think CA would screw themselves on purpose considering that they know less people will respect them. There is a reason dx11 is being delayed. They aren't doing it in spite of us.

Again - it's not necessarily about DX11 IMO. It's about promising something and then not delivering on the promise. It's creating a lack of good faith, and it's helping entrench the perception that CA can't be trusted.

They may not be "screwing" themselves on purpose, but they're doing themselves a disservice by consistently offering features (be it a patch, mod tools, unifrom editor, "good" AI) that are rarely able to follow through on. It's a bad business model and it needs to be changed.

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

nah just the cat....(my kitty is way cooler )

without going too deep and answering the op...

its got alot more to do with than just STW, hell i only jumped on the bandwagon around MTW2 days and there was already these issues going on with Rome/MTW etc.

Now take that example times it by another 3-4 releases (depends on what you consider a release) a good 5-8 years and you will start to have a basic understanding for some frustrations and not too mention the endless promises, commitments and statements made to the peeps on the TWC and more importantly to the larger TW fan base.

Secondly you must understand that although a very active and well supported site in the greater scheme of things i reckon we probably count for less than 1% of the market share.

But we (the TWC) ;not me im still a noob; are a collection of probably the most dedicated and organised TW fan base in the market and thats why things get really heated up here at times.

hope that clarifies things a little.

Your post is just gong to inflame them even more, making the situation worse. I'd leave it here if you don't like all the "whine" posts.

also a good point..... randomly making wild statements about the general sate of posts and posters while you are very new to the forum itself can be considered rather ignorant and rude....IMO