How long will the AI get the financial bonus?

[Palandiell]

how long will this keep on going? its making me sick to see an enemy with 1 province have the same # of troops I have with 3. to program a smart AI is hard, yes, but just to give em money, which ruins many aspects of the game is stupid. (including the fact here, that even if you kill their daimyo and he has no heirs/brothers, there will ALWAYS be someone else)

[davidnowlin]

I don't think the AI is giving other factions money. If it did, I'd expect them to use it better. I think it just spawns armies without making the other factions pay for them.

This, in my opinion, is the worst sort of twinky, artificial, frustrating crap I can think of. That and the Realm Divide pile-on.

I get that people want a challenge. I get that people thought the end game in previous TW games was too easy. I get that people think it's not fun to steamroll your opponents. That's fine, but you know what:

THE REST OF US DON'T LIKE TO PLAY AGAINST CHEATERS.

If the AI doesn't have to follow the same rules I have to follow, I can't predict its behavior well enough to take well-reasoned risks. I can't plan my actions if I can't count on the results. If I send three spies into an enemy's lands, make sure he doesn't have any huge armies, then send in my own army to pummel him, and suddenly get smacked around by an army of 15 ashigaru that he spawned in 1 turn despite having only 5 provinces: my reaction is to stop playing.

If I spend hours and hours and hours carefully clawing my way out of the diplomatic hole you start in as Tokugawa, painstakingly eek out a 15 province nation that's strong enough that I can start to build an army, finally get my income above about 2k a turn, and then take one more province and have the rest of the country declare war on me, have all my trade dry up, and start losing provinces to rebellions because I can't support my army with 1/6 the income I had last turn: my reaction is to stop playing.

Maybe there are ways around these things that I haven't thought of, but the fact that these are problems at all makes the game = not fun for me. I don't like having the rug yanked out from under me. I don't like competing on an uneven playing field.

Actually, you know what? That isn't true. I didn't have any problem starting off as a vassal (I've only played as Tokugawa). I didn't have any problem having to find out how to deal with that problem by trial and error. Because that made sense. You accept the starting position and you deal with it. These other things, these artificial "gotcha" AI tricks, don't make any sense. They're just there to make game harder. Which is almost a laudable goal. But they don't really make the game harder. They just make it frustrating, unfair and less fun.

I don't have any expectation that I can't win because of this RD crap. I'll be able to do it. It's not that much harder. It's just that when you spend ten or fifteen hours playing a game, building a coalition, relying on it to work a certain way (ie, the economy is at least half trade-based and diplomacy is a huge part of the game... until you get to about 16, 20 provinces) it sucks when the game stops being that game and becomes something totally different, on a dime. Despite what I've read on the posts, there does not seem to be a way to keep Diplomacy functioning after the RD. At least not indefinitely. Once you have too many provinces, you must conquer or die. There's no more planning. No more scheming. Just fighting, or losing.

It isn't fun.

Someone please mod this crap out of the game. Thanks.

[Palandiell]

I don't think the AI is giving other factions money. If it did, I'd expect them to use it better. I think it just spawns armies without making the other factions pay for them.

This, in my opinion, is the worst sort of twinky, artificial, frustrating crap I can think of. That and the Realm Divide pile-on.

I get that people want a challenge. I get that people thought the end game in previous TW games was too easy. I get that people think it's not fun to steamroll your opponents. That's fine, but you know what:

THE REST OF US DON'T LIKE TO PLAY AGAINST CHEATERS.

If the AI doesn't have to follow the same rules I have to follow, I can't predict its behavior well enough to take well-reasoned risks. I can't plan my actions if I can't count on the results. If I send three spies into an enemy's lands, make sure he doesn't have any huge armies, then send in my own army to pummel him, and suddenly get smacked around by an army of 15 ashigaru that he spawned in 1 turn despite having only 5 provinces: my reaction is to stop playing.

If I spend hours and hours and hours carefully clawing my way out of the diplomatic hole you start in as Tokugawa, painstakingly eek out a 15 province nation that's strong enough that I can start to build an army, finally get my income above about 2k a turn, and then take one more province and have the rest of the country declare war on me, have all my trade dry up, and start losing provinces to rebellions because I can't support my army with 1/6 the income I had last turn: my reaction is to stop playing.

Maybe there are ways around these things that I haven't thought of, but the fact that these are problems at all makes the game = not fun for me. I don't like having the rug yanked out from under me. I don't like competing on an uneven playing field.

Actually, you know what? That isn't true. I didn't have any problem starting off as a vassal (I've only played as Tokugawa). I didn't have any problem having to find out how to deal with that problem by trial and error. Because that made sense. You accept the starting position and you deal with it. These other things, these artificial "gotcha" AI tricks, don't make any sense. They're just there to make game harder. Which is almost a laudable goal. But they don't really make the game harder. They just make it frustrating, unfair and less fun.

I don't have any expectation that I can't win because of this RD crap. I'll be able to do it. It's not that much harder. It's just that when you spend ten or fifteen hours playing a game, building a coalition, relying on it to work a certain way (ie, the economy is at least half trade-based and diplomacy is a huge part of the game... until you get to about 16, 20 provinces) it sucks when the game stops being that game and becomes something totally different, on a dime. Despite what I've read on the posts, there does not seem to be a way to keep Diplomacy functioning after the RD. At least not indefinitely. Once you have too many provinces, you must conquer or die. There's no more planning. No more scheming. Just fighting, or losing.

It isn't fun.

Someone please mod this crap out of the game. Thanks.

Totally agree, its a give away money for free . I could just as well type in a cheet (give me money ) and HURRAY I have money. dont know why ppl would want to cheat in games. make them boring as

[SupAll]

Die thread. Die. We've had this argument before, no need to start it up again.

[Ak1980]

Play normal difficulty, case solved

[SupAll]

Play normal difficulty, case solved

But they want to be able to beat the AI on Legendary! Shame on you for giving such an easy way to get what they want!

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Play normal difficulty, case solved

Yeah they still get a financial bonus, which is the problem for me. I wouldn't really care if everything was totally even between me and the AI as far as handicaps go on normal and everything else was harder, it would make sense. But that's not the case.

[SupAll]

Yeah they still get a financial bonus, which is the problem for me. I wouldn't really care if everything was totally even between me and the AI as far as handicaps go on normal and everything else was harder, it would make sense. But that's not the case.

Can we let this die? We've had numerous arguments about this and you can easily mod the files yourself so the AI doesn't get a financial bonus. If you're just stating your disappointment in the AI, then I can easily address the fact that you're not an AI programmer that has to program at least 3 different AI in a strict and given time frame. Now, what other complaint are you going to raise?

[Aeneas Veneratio]

@Date Harumune: The solution to (all) your worries can be found in the game tweak forum. From RD to amount of fame needed for RD to bonuses.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Can we let this die? We've had numerous arguments about this and you can easily mod the files yourself so the AI doesn't get a financial bonus. If you're just stating your disappointment in the AI, then I can easily address the fact that you're not an AI programmer that has to program at least 3 different AI in a strict and given time frame. Now, what other complaint are you going to raise?

Um, no. Not until you stop acting the way you're acting Mr. Freakout.

As for Aeneas, I'll have to check it out when I'm back on my gaming PC this weekend. It would be nice to tweak a few things.

[Drowsy]

Yeah they still get a financial bonus, which is the problem for me. I wouldn't really care if everything was totally even between me and the AI as far as handicaps go on normal and everything else was harder, it would make sense. But that's not the case.

Load up a normal campaign, any campaign except Hojo.

Kill the rebels and place your starting army in your fort.
Que 2 units, select a tech and end the turn. Don't upgrade any buildings.
Repeat this indefinitely.

You now have a full stack, one province, no money and possibly slowly going bankrupt. Your town is also worth 900 koku and dropping.

You are now mimicking the AI on normal.

[Ak1980]

Load up a normal campaign, any campaign except Hojo.

Kill the rebels and place your starting army in your fort.
Que 2 units, select a tech and end the turn. Don't upgrade any buildings.
Repeat this indefinitely.

You now have a full stack, one province, no money and possibly slowly going bankrupt. Your town is also worth 900 koku and dropping.

You are now mimicking the AI on normal.

You forgot counting their clan estate, 1200 gold! I suspect the 1 province AI use that money to pay their army upkeep after bankrupting their province wealth

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Load up a normal campaign, any campaign except Hojo.

Kill the rebels and place your starting army in your fort.
Que 2 units, select a tech and end the turn. Don't upgrade any buildings.
Repeat this indefinitely.

You now have a full stack, one province, no money and possibly slowly going bankrupt. Your town is also worth 900 koku and dropping.

You are now mimicking the AI on normal.

But they keep building and they keep recruiting. >.<

[rob-a-dogg]

Calling it Legendary AI is a bit of a strech. Call it "Legandary Handicap Computer Player".

And normal has a slight handicap towards the player :/

[Aeon221]

The AI doesn't spawn armies. It gets a bonus to recruit and to recruit experience. It also gets bonus income.

Oh noooes! How completely unlike what happens in every other game!

[Ak1980]

AI at normal difficulty get NO bonus at all. It's already confirmed at other forum, in fact at normal diff CAI got slight handicapped. Whatever bonus you think AI get at normal diff, you also getting it.
AI get bonus starting from Hard, but it's only slight bonus. At Very Hard and Legendary AI got multiple bonus.

[asdfen]

what happens on legendary is a strech to call intelligent. 1-2 province clans within first 10 turns magicly able to field multiple half full stacks of units with 3-4 generals that keep continuously reapearing if you let em. Too bad the computer has no idea how to use that brutal force or the game would be unbeatable. Also diplomacy on legendary seems a lil out of whack. Mayby its on all difficulties but you have to rely on diplomacy on legendary and cant reload previous save before one lil false choice not even necessarily made by the player can lead to everyon truning on to previous allies and ceasefire is close to impossible to achieve unless the clan is already at ap oint where diplomacy doesnt mater you do whatever you like if we dont like it we send nukes, but trying to make sense of it without anything to fall back on is annoying.

I actually figured it out all rival factions in this games are fianced by the Americans!. Americans from the future that beam up energize whatever the troops right out thin air and as a after effect they have been brain washed.

Seriously thought you may not agree with the means but whatever bonuses penalties whatever they are adjusting between difficulties they do work. The game is more challening on higher difficulties. I would not say by much thought. The only challenge is that there is no save which imo sucks as a "short" game still take many hours at least for me and wiith the AI the way it is you are prety much vaporized upon making any mistake on legendary

[Aeon221]

Lemme be honest here. I have a feeling that most of the folks complaining about the AI advantages are just posting PDW (post death whines). You loaded up Legendary, you got creamed, and now you want the game made easier so that you can win.

DURR. Wrong answer.

Legendary caters to the kind of player that plays their campaign like a spreadsheet. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THAT IS A GOOD WAY TO PLAY THE GAME. In many games, it's a handicap because it means blowing through content with ease, getting bored and quitting. But if obsessive attention to detail, extensive micro and acquiring a detailed understanding of the underlying logic and mathematics of the game isn't your idea of a good time, you are supposed to be playing H or N, not L. Those are the campaign modes designed for roleplay and smashing toy soldiers together so that they'll fly into the air and make you giggle. Which, I must admit, is often a great deal of fun!

Legendary is supposed to be about you losing. Over and over and over. Until you really get it, and you manage to eke out a win against impossible odds.



It's why I've played multiple campaigns as Oda in the three hours of free time I have during the week -- not (just) because I have wood for the faction, but because I have an almost compulsive urge to nail down the optimal starting strategy, and then use it to plow the AI until it bleeds out its and begs for the butting to cease. But I won't! I'll butt the sucker til it keels over from blood loss!

And then, likely, I'll never touch the game again. Unless, of course I suddenly develop the urge to smash property and whomp Norb as Tokugawa on Legendary.

You aren't that kind of player. Wanna guess how I know? You're whining about AI advantages.

Those. Are. The. Whole. Point.

[Maizel]

I don't think the factions get much money, if at all.

I can support 2 stacks of Ashigaru with a single province, if it has decent income, at least. I can;t build my infrastructure, but I can support them.

[Aeon221]

It's not quite that bad, but it is indeed very close to that bad. The AI will upgrade stuff, but it's clearly a tertiary priority at best when it should be a primary one.

But if it was a primary priority, the AI would be even more open to rushing than it already is. So, uh, I guess that's cool.