Phalanx formations for Dunlendings Elite Pikemen?

[Rahwana]

I Personally gave them that formations (other than schiltron that the AI doesn't know when to use it anyway) and activate their secondary sword (by adding fs_swordsman in their DMB entry, as well as giving secondary line of standard sword attack (8,5) in EDU), plus changing the short_pike to long_pike

the result is they are much more useful against Rohan and to some points, RK troops, even they can hold up men at arms (but not forever), so they are much more worthy to train.

How about that?

[Aradan]

To be considered. Phalanx has a number of side-effects, some of which might be unwanted, balance-wise. Plus, the formation itself might not exactly be lore-friendly. I'll decide after I've tested.

[Rahwana]

To be considered. Phalanx has a number of side-effects, some of which might be unwanted, balance-wise. Plus, the formation itself might not exactly be lore-friendly. I'll decide after I've tested.

yeah, but Saruman did teach the previously wild Dunlendings to do better art of warfare by giving them pikes.

[Aradan]

In the books?

[Rahwana]

duh, looks like I play too much TATW and movie oriented
my bad

BTW, is there anything we can do to make the AI use Schiltron more effectively?

[Aradan]

Not really. At least I don't know any way.

[Nehcrum]

You can use phalanx formation in Barbarian Invasion?
I thought phalanx and testudo was taken out and replaced by shield wall and schiltron.

But yeah, phalanx makes units with long spears/pikes suddenly become a lot stronger.
Schiltron is hard to use effectively, for humans as well as AI. An immovable formation without ranged weapons is just not effective, you'll just avoid it and take out the other stuff first and then mop up the remains.

[Thangaror]

Indeed, you can use phalanx in BI.
There are several 'weapon attributes' in RTW: spear, light_spear, short_pike, long_pike

light_spear and long_pike are connected with phalanx formation. Light_spear are hoplites, long_pike phalangites. In RTW the attribute spear was given to 'ordinary' spearmen, like Triarii and Libyan Spearmen. Now, in BI (I think) 'short_pike' came into use and I think it was given to most spearmen. A certain animation was given to this attribute, that is why units with this attribute look like if they had the phalanx ability (Gothic Spearmen for example, or in FATW Elite Pikemen IIRC). The unit will look as if in phalanx formation, but they won't have the mentioned side-effects of phalanx, also they can run. It's somewhat weird and I haven't figured out why they introduced the short_pike thingy.

So, basically all you have to do is replace 'short_pike' by 'long_pike' or 'light_spear' give the unit the ability to form a phalanx and you're done.

[Spike]

I wonder what if the Late Dunlending army become a "Diadochian" army, is that lore accurate? or possible?
maybe better if their pikemen become more like M2TW armoured sergeants, just turn off the schiltron and short pike, so they will act like normal spearmen

[Aradan]

By diadochian you mean having their core army being pikes? Pike formation require lots of drilling and discipline, and I can't see Dunland having their core army like that.

[Spike]

that's why they should be better represented as normal heavy spearmen. Because even with being the last unit to be unlocked, Human player (that most inevitably allready play a lot of Hellenistic factions in various mods), knows that Phalanx formations are too strong against AI in late period, they simply can't properly outflank Phalanx line without phalanx on their own (to tie things up).

[Rahwana]

but who want to build hard to reach custom city development for merely get heavy spearmen? at least they'll be worth it if they can do a phalanx

[Rtw]

You could make them insanely overpowered.

But anyways gonna go a bit off topic and ask where is the official praise thread for this mod?

If there isn't a one then i'm going to create a one. (if it's ok for Aradan and the Mod Team.)


PS: Congratulations and thanks for taking the time and dedication you're putting into the mod, hell i'd buy this mod. (if it was retail.)

[Aradan]

We don't have a praise thread, people are free to worship us wherever they want.

WRT to the pikemen and everything, we're gonna test every permutation of pike we can and go with what looks and works best.