What's better Shogun 2 Total War or Shogun Total War?

[pditty8811]

Seriously, as far as revolutionary, new ideas, and re-playability which game was better?

Shogun Total War revolutionized the PC game industry with strategical and tactical battles in one game! Blew my mind!

[Beowulf1990]

It doesn't matter if it was "revolutionary". And besides, it was a hell of lot easier to be "revolutionary" back in the day, when there were so many options. These days, face it, most of it's been done already. So for new ideas I don't think there is a proper comparison because it's impossible to get a fair reference frame.

As for replayability, I finished the first Shogun twice, I'm up to the fourth full campaign on Shogun 2, so that wins my support.

I'm certainly not saying Shogun 1 wasn't absolutely brilliant mind you

[pditty8811]

It doesn't matter if it was "revolutionary". And besides, it was a hell of lot easier to be "revolutionary" back in the day, when there were so many options. These days, face it, most of it's been done already. So for new ideas I don't think there is a proper comparison because it's impossible to get a fair reference frame.

As for replayability, I finished the first Shogun twice, I'm up to the fourth full campaign on Shogun 2, so that wins my support.

I'm certainly not saying Shogun 1 wasn't absolutely brilliant mind you

I disagree, if Napoleon thought most of it had been done already for the musket and cannon era, he wouldn't have gotten anything done.

There are always endless possibilities, they just have to think outside the box like they did when they made Shogun total war or RTW or ETW. They have to dig.

[Beowulf1990]

I disagree, if Napoleon thought most of it had been done already for the musket and cannon era, he wouldn't have gotten anything done.

There are always endless possibilities, they just have to think outside the box like they did when they made Shogun total war or RTW or ETW. They have to dig.

Games and military technology ==> new tactics is not a proper analogy mate, he got new radically different technology and put it to approprate use, disregarding the old guard. You can't just invent new games styles onto infinity.

And btw, ETW was not out-of-the-box thinking, it was precisely the same as RTW, but with guns. I agree that some innovation would be welcome, of course it is, but I don't think a change like Medieval ==> Rome is really possible. Hope they prove me wrong though.

[pditty8811]

Games and military technology ==> new tactics is not a proper analogy mate, he got new radically different technology and put it to approprate use, disregarding the old guard. You can't just invent new games styles onto infinity.

And btw, ETW was not out-of-the-box thinking, it was precisely the same as RTW, but with guns. I agree that some innovation would be welcome, of course it is, but I don't think a change like Medieval ==> Rome is really possible. Hope they prove me wrong though.

Wrong, ETW added naval wafare, global dominance, overseas trade routes, and a government cabinent. Need i go on?

Anyway, you seem to defending the devs excuse of mediocraty and that they can't think of anything new to add to a game. Sounds like a lose - lose argument your defending. Irregardless what is said here, it doesn't change the fact that the devs could have made the game just as epoch as their other releases.

Why settle for this crap?

[Googoo24]

At least this one invites discussion rather than just making an uninteresting statement.

I'm not sure what there is to discuss. That the first TW game was revolutionary? That's to be expected, seeing as it was the first title.

Asking which is better is absurd.

Wrong, ETW added naval wafare, global dominance, overseas trade routes, and a government cabinent. Need i go on?

Anyway, you seem to defending the devs excuse of mediocraty and that they can't think of anything new to add to a game. Sounds like a lose - lose argument your defending. Irregardless what is said here, it doesn't change the fact that the devs could have made the game just as epoch as their other releases.

Why settle for this crap?

I thought you liked the game? Now it's "crap?"

At least I have a perspective now.

[Googoo24]

You know, I didn't really care too much about your other topic...........But this one is ridiculous.

[Beowulf1990]

He's going for a record?

At least this one invites discussion rather than just making an uninteresting statement.

[Beowulf1990]

Naval Warfare was just the same as land warfare in essence, but with wind. A welcome addition, but hardly revolutionary. Trade was just sitting on a node with a ship, not revolutionary, "global dominance" is nothing but a matter of scale which was actually the game's greatest fault and the government cabinet might as well have not been there since it made no difference.
Evolution <==> revolution. That was evolution, not revolution.

If you can get over your own subjective condemnation of the game (many, many other people are loving the game) perhaps you'd be capable of a fair standpoint and prevent yourself from just saying "it's crap, because i think so". Maybe, just maybe it's just not for you, but still a perfectly good game.

Adieu

[pditty8811]

Naval Warfare was just the same as land warfare in essence, but with wind. A welcome addition, but hardly revolutionary. Trade was just sitting on a node with a ship, not revolutionary, "global dominance" is nothing but a matter of scale which was actually the game's greatest fault and the government cabinet might as well have not been there since it made no difference.
Evolution <==> revolution. That was evolution, not revolution.

If you can get over your own subjective condemnation of the game (many, many other people are loving the game) perhaps you'd be capable of a fair standpoint and prevent yourself from just saying "it's crap, because i think so". Maybe, just maybe it's just not for you, but still a perfectly good game.

Adieu

No, it's for me. It's just not dynamic enough yet. I'm giving the modding community some time to expand the game where the devs left off.

And I think your being wayyyyy to harsh on the many dimensions of ETW. You have a subjective prejudice against ETW.

[Beowulf1990]

No, it's for me. It's just not dynamic enough yet. I'm giving the modding community some time to expand the game where the devs left off.

And I think your being wayyyyy to harsh on the many dimensions of ETW. You have a subjective prejudice against ETW.

I really don't, I own it and have played many hours. All I said was that it wasn't revolutionary, hardly harsh I think.

[SonOfCrusader76]

I believe I made a thread about this very topic myself. With a poll!

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...hogun+graphics

[pditty8811]

I believe I made a thread about this very topic myself. With a poll!

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...hogun+graphics

Srry bloke. But this is more about the revolutionary"ness" and epoch"ness" of the game, not so much its game-play.

[pditty8811]

I really don't, I own it and have played many hours. All I said was that it wasn't revolutionary, hardly harsh I think.

No, you were degrading all the dynamic aspects ETW added to the TW series, in detail.

[SonOfOdin]

I've already seen this kinda thread...but the "debate here"...

[pditty8811]

She won an Oscar for best supporting actress.

[Humble Warrior]

Seriously, as far as revolutionary, new ideas, and re-playability which game was better?

Shogun Total War revolutionized the PC game industry with strategical and tactical battles in one game! Blew my mind!

This is an unfair question isn`t it? STW wins every time, but not quite for the reason most people will think.

STW was released when there were basically no games of this kind around. STW2 is basically STW but enhanced, that`s all really. STW is really a symbol of the whole Creative Assembly, it still uses the same Samurai on horse motiff.

STW had more realism. Headless Diplomats anyone? Throne room with your own Geicha? It was made at a time when these guys really made the game for love of it than just cash.

But it`s NOT better for graphics, or sound. Graphics and sound are to me less important than gameplay. Out of 100, graphics and sound mean about 30% of the score. Yea, shock and horror to the eye candy over gameplay crowd. Graphics should be used to enhance gameplay, not take the place of it.

I suppose another final reason STW is better is because if I ever need to install and run an STW game I can with STW wherever I am, whenever I want. With STW2, I will always need the internet to install and every few weeks. This is a weak link. I don`t like weak links.

STW wins by default.

[pditty8811]

This is an unfair question isn`t it? STW wins every time, but not quite for the reason most people will think.

STW was released when there were basically no games of this kind around. STW2 is basically STW but enhanced, that`s all really. STW is really a symbol of the whole Creative Assembly, it still uses the same Samurai on horse motiff.

STW had more realism. Headless Diplomats anyone? Throne room with your own Geicha? It was made at a time when these guys really made the game for love of it than just cash.

But it`s NOT better for graphics, or sound. Graphics and sound are to me less important than gameplay. Out of 100, graphics and sound mean about 30% of the score. Yea, shock and horror to the eye candy over gameplay crowd. Graphics should be used to enhance gameplay, not take the place of it.

I suppose another final reason STW is better is because if I ever need to install and run an STW game I can with STW wherever I am, whenever I want. With STW2, I will always need the internet to install and every few weeks. This is a weak link. I don`t like weak links.

STW wins by default.

I agree in many aspects. I think the sheer epochness and endless scope are good game qualities for me. Like the huge scope of ETW, with the epochness of STW.

I am also weary of "Big Brother" Steam.

[Googoo24]

I agree in many aspects. I think the sheer epochness and endless scope are good game qualities for me. Like the huge scope of ETW, with the epochness of STW.

What was "epoch" about STW in comparison to its true successor?

[pditty8811]

What was "epoch" about STW in comparison to its true successor?

Seriously?

Figure it out Fan Boy.