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    Default Nihilism, futile and without substance?

    For some time now I have been caught in the chains of nihilism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    The term comes from the Latin nihil, meaning "not anything". The Oxford English Dictionary gives 1817 as its earliest use in English, and Alain Rey's Dictionnaire historique de la langue française (rev. ed. 1995) gives 1787 as the first use of the word in French, noting that nihiliste was used in 1761, though in a religious sense of 'heretic' that is now obsolete. Rey also argues that the Russian equivalent nigilizm (нигилизм) that appeared in 1829 was an impulse to the penetration of the term into modern language.

    The Latin indefinite pronoun nihili ('nothing') is a reduced form of nihilum, a term that derives from ne-hilom, an emphatic form of the negation ne by means of hilum, meaning 'the slightest amount' and of uncertain origin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Nihilism as a philosophical position argues that the world, and especially human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Nihilists generally believe all of the following: God doesn't exist, traditional morality is false, and secular ethics are impossible; therefore, life has no meaning, and no action is preferable to any other.
    Nothing is an important word in Nihilism and also in my life.
    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Nothing is the lack or absence of anything (including empty space).
    From a philosophical point of view, the concept of "nothing" can have many interpretations. In fact, people can even state that nothing does not exist. One cannot sense, see, feel, or think nothing. There is no contact with nothing. Nothing is where everything isn't. Visualizing "nothing" would make "something". It could be seen as a physical void or as just a word which only has meaning when used to describe a relationship between different "somethings". A single "correct" definition of nothing could be considered impossible, since "right" and "wrong" do not fit within the confines of nothing.
    There was once a man called Ecclesiastes whom some believe is king Solomon. It says in the bible that God went to Solomon in his dream and said he could wish for anything he desired, anything. Solomon choose for wisdom instead for money or fame so he can judge well. God was astonished and gave him not only wisdom but also money, fame and what not. Solomon was now the wisest of them all, he knew everything and had everything his hart could ever desire. But that wisdom brought him only sorrow. You perhaps know the saying "Vanity of vanities, all is vanity" which he said. He was obsessed with the meaninglessness of everything which I think drove him to the point of insanity and hatred against God. He had lots of womans from other countries who all brought along their own God. He started giving offers and sacrifices to those "false" Gods. And so ends the tale of the wisest of wise, Ecclesiastes. He ended up sinning, he the wisest of them all. How could he not have known? He was the wisest. Therefore I think he was angry at God who gave him sorrow in the disguise of wisdom. The book of Ecclesiastes frankly faces the limited capacity of the human spirit to create ultimate meaning. God held information back. Humans are supossedly not capable of knowing the real truth. Lack of understanding is no excuse for immorality. The writer suspects that there is more to life than he or anyone else can figure out. God has planted in the human mind the notion of eternity, a reality that transcends human finiteness, yet he has not equipped humans to grasp it.

    (I toke his name not because I think I am wise or the wisest but because of our shared obsession)
    As he did and many other philosophers I also am obsessed with the meaninglessness of everything. I do not say I experience the same sorrow as him, not by a long shot, and also not think that I am wise, far from it (I always say that to be wise is to know you know nothing, which on a side note also doesn't make me think I am wise). I am young, I know nothing but perhaps you do. Enlighten me.

    If nothing comes from nothing, then something must come from something. We are something and we must have come from something. That someting must also have come from something and so on.

    If nothing exists, there is empty space. If there is empty space there is something. Since this is a contradiction of the first statement neither statement exists. Therefore something must always exist. Therefore nothing is the only thing that does not exist.

    What does a man love more than life?
    Hate more than death or mortal strife?
    That which contented men desire,
    The poor have, the rich require,
    The miser spends, the spendthrift saves,
    And all men carry to their graves?

    So what do you think? Is nihilism futile and without substance? What do you think about the nothingness of everything? Do you think everything has no meaning?
    In patronicvm svb Jesus The Inane

  2. #2

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    I think that everything has a meaning, why would it be here?
    Why are we here? There must be a reason human beings are here.
    There must be a purpose for everything. If something is pointless, it does not exist.
    I also belive there is no such thing as empty space, something must be there. It could be air, it could be an object but something is always there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perikles
    I think that everything has a meaning, why would it be here?
    What makes you think that? Where is the meaning in life?
    Last edited by Perikles; April 21, 2007 at 05:12 AM.
    In patronicvm svb Jesus The Inane

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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes
    What makes you think that? Where is the meaning in life?
    There is not just one meaning to life, infact there are as many as you wish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes
    What makes you think that? Where is the meaning in life?
    If you want to get down to the basics, the meaning of life is to reproduce, and pass along your genetic material to your offspring. After that, our advanced intllegence means that we are able to alter our environment and control our base insticts, letting us create our current civilization. The purpose of life is to enjoy it, and to strive to better yourself. Life does not have to be profoundly significant to be meaningful.

    If you cannot find any meaning or joy in your life, what stops you from ending it?
    Balian: "You go to certain death."
    Hospitaler: "All death is certain"

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    Quote Originally Posted by chimera1715
    If you want to get down to the basics, the meaning of life is to reproduce, and pass along your genetic material to your offspring. After that, our advanced intllegence means that we are able to alter our environment and control our base insticts, letting us create our current civilization. The purpose of life is to enjoy it, and to strive to better yourself. Life does not have to be profoundly significant to be meaningful.
    Your view and not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by chimera1715
    If you cannot find any meaning or joy in your life, what stops you from ending it?
    Because that goes against everything I believe in. Suicide is the cowards way out, one should never give up. Also because life is very good to me except for those occasional depressions. I find life enjoyable, good and beautifull but sometimes I can't seem to see the meaning of it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    It's only depressive if you make it depressive. Life is about what you make of it, not about what someone or something said you should make it about.

    Let em ask you this question: Why should we even care if there's nothing? Do you like to live? Yes? Then why would you care? Do you absolutely need a goal? Do we always need some kind of goal or reward to do something? Why can't we just take things as they are and for what they are?

    Life is an awesome thing man, no need for something to justify it.
    I'm not going to fool myself with positive ideas if everything is negative. I say this because I simply can't. I do have a good life you know and those "depressions" are from time to time. Overall I think I have a good life.
    Last edited by Ecclesiastes; February 18, 2006 at 02:23 PM.
    In patronicvm svb Jesus The Inane

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes
    I'm not going to fool myself with positive ideas if everything is negative. I say this because I simply can't. I do have a good life you know and those "depressions" are from time to time. Overall I think I have a good life.
    Everything is negative? How is that? How is nothing negative? And life is very positive. Those depressions are very normal, and everything that makes you sad, angry, etc. are all part of life. If everything was always nice and happy, how boring life would be!

    and been becoming terrified of death
    I don't think we should be terrified of death either. Of course, I don't want to die, but if it happens, I won't be there to care about it anymore, so the best I can do is to live as much as I can, and as well as I can.
    I sin for the good of humankind
    "I praise, I do not reproach, [nihilism's] arrival. I believe it is one of the greatest crises, a moment of the deepest self-reflection of humanity. Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength."
    -Nietzsche
    Truth is not a law, a democracy, a book or a norm not even a constitution. Nor can it be read in the stars.

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    chimera1715's Avatar Civis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes
    Because that goes against everything I believe in. Suicide is the cowards way out, one should never give up. Also because life is very good to me except for those occasional depressions. I find life enjoyable, good and beautifull but sometimes I can't seem to see the meaning of it all.
    If you find life enjoyble, then is that not meaningful? Chances are, most of us will never lead really significant lives, but by simply enjoying the life you have, you create the meaning you are looking for.

    There is no grand religious or philosphical "meaning of life". The only real requirement of the human race is to reproduce and survive as a species. So you are never going to find an all-encompasing "meaning of life". Meaning is derived from your enjoyment of life and your pursuit of "the question". Man always strives to answer the deep questions, but the answers are usually disappointing or non-existant. You should not expect meaning in your life while waiting for an answer.
    Balian: "You go to certain death."
    Hospitaler: "All death is certain"

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    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Why should everything have a meaning? Is that not a creation of humanity to justify our being? Does everything need to be justified?

    I'm not sure as to whether I'm on/off topic... My head hurts when I read this stuff. Far too complicated for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imb39
    Why should everything have a meaning? Is that not a creation of humanity to justify our being? Does everything need to be justified?
    It is not necessary but if there is no meaning then why are you alive? What is your purpose? There is none. Doesn't that make you feel very very very small and insignificant?
    In patronicvm svb Jesus The Inane

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    Quote Originally Posted by imb39
    Why should everything have a meaning? Is that not a creation of humanity to justify our being? Does everything need to be justified?

    I'm not sure as to whether I'm on/off topic... My head hurts when I read this stuff. Far too complicated for me.
    Yes, it is too complicated.

    I believe that life is too much of a coincidence to not have a meaning.

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    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    No... I have to much to do in life...

    Why should I be anything other than insignificant anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by imb39
    Why should I be anything other than insignificant anyway?
    Because you are complex, you have a mind. You have free will and intelligence. All of these things cannot come from nothing right? The human body is so complex scientists don't even know how certain things work and what for (like the sub-conscious).
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    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Yes, we are complex. But so is a mouse... All living things are complex, that does not make them significant. Our planet is an insignificant one orbiting an insignificant star which is in an insignificant galaxy. I fail to see what makes us so great in that sense.

    There may well be other beings that excede us in complexity. We simply do not know. It does not matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imb39
    Yes, we are complex. But so is a mouse... All living things are complex, that does not make them significant. Our planet is an insignificant one orbiting an insignificant star which is in an insignificant galaxy. I fail to see what makes us so great in that sense.

    There may well be other beings that excede us in complexity. We simply do not know. It does not matter.
    Well in my eyes if something is complex it is significant. A plant for instance isn't but a human is. A mouse isn't complex, it has no free mind nor notable intelligence. Just another animal going where it's instincts lead him. We on the other hand are free. We can discuss such matters as this. Still of course one can develop even more and I don't doubt that there aren't species out there who view upon us as mice as I do upon mice. Who are more intelligent and more significant. Our planet is one of trillions and trillions and trillions more. Nothing special other then that there are people living on that planet who are developing and becoming more intelligent (whilst other become more stupid). Perhaps insignificant in the eyes of others but not in mine. So signifigance is in the eye of the beholder...
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    Quote Originally Posted by imb39
    Yes, we are complex. But so is a mouse... All living things are complex, that does not make them significant. Our planet is an insignificant one orbiting an insignificant star which is in an insignificant galaxy. I fail to see what makes us so great in that sense.

    There may well be other beings that excede us in complexity. We simply do not know. It does not matter.
    What makes us different than other lifeforms is that we are able to alter the environment that we in. Other lifeforms adapt to the environment but don't physically change it.

  17. #17

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    There is no meaning to life other then to live it. You can give it your own meaning, if you like, but there is no universal meaning of life, and there is no great wisdom you can achieve and live on in eternal bliss.

    As far as I'm concerned, of course.

    Patron of Felixion, Ulyaoth, Reidy, Ran Taro and Darth Red
    Co-Founder of the House of Caesars


  18. #18

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    The Meaning of Life?

    Be nice to each other,
    don't eat too much fat...
    and something else i forget...

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    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Ahh... But physicly all living things are complex to a similar degree (I know that this is somehwat over simplifying it). What you are talking about is intangible. Are we free? Are we all following some predetermined path... Who knows? If we are, perhaps we cannot conceive of the pathy we're going down.

    You are assigning a particular trait that, as far as know, humans show. However, it could be argued that dolphins etc demonstrate similar properties to us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imb39
    Ahh... But physicly all living things are complex to a similar degree (I know that this is somehwat over simplifying it). What you are talking about is intangible. Are we free? Are we all following some predetermined path... Who knows? If we are, perhaps we cannot conceive of the pathy we're going down.
    I meant free as in a free mind not captive of our instincts able to discuss intelligent subjects. Well if there isn't a God then there isn't a predetermined path either. If there is a God ,and lets take the christian one for example who gave us free will, I doubt there is a predetermined path. So in both examples there is no predetermined path. Besides what's the fun in something of some being already knows what is going to happen. On the other hand perhaps there is such a thing as a predetermined path or fate but we as human beings with free will have to make decisions whether we go towards what is planned or walk away from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon
    There is not just one meaning to life, infact there are as many as you wish.
    If you want to fool yourself with that. Though it's true that everybody differs in their opinion on the meaning of life

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Roman
    what a very drab and cynical (even too cynical for me) way of looking at life. I would never follow such a philosophy
    I had no say in the matter but I doubt you would understand (meant respectfully).
    In patronicvm svb Jesus The Inane

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