Settlement growth not stopping

[Dahoota]

I'm playing as Carthage at the moment, at about a population of 90,000 Carthago was growing at 2.5% and this figure hasn't changed with no squalor increase and as a result the population has been increasing exponentially since. Now at 190,000 and the growth still hasn't changed.

As far I'm concerned this isn't a really problem as, being my captial, PO is not a problem so it just means more people to tax. But is this a glitch or something? That might make sense as in vanilla RTW cities weren't really meant to reach this size (I think the highest I ever saw was 60,000 in Alexandria).

Anyone else had this happen?

[Rahwana]

do you build population growth measures and forgot to destroy it later (and even upgrading them constantly?) Squalor is capped at 100%, so huge population at huge cities won't cause any problems if that city is 1005 your culture, you can even still got a Very H tax rate with that.

[Tesla]

Do you have a screenshot ? because I think the population was capped at about 50k

[Jakethe_Snake15]

I have Roma at 53k, the only reason it's not higher is because I destroyed the pop. growth measures that I had in Roma for a long while, and taxes are at Very High...

[rory o'kane]

Why not build the suburbs/villages/towns/cities tree instead - that'll curb your population growth rather significantly.

[mudang]

Is having that high a population a negative? Seems to me that having high pop would be good for both manpower and tax revenue unless I'm missing something.

[Ferdiad]

I'm playing as Carthage at the moment, at about a population of 90,000 Carthago was growing at 2.5% and this figure hasn't changed with no squalor increase and as a result the population has been increasing exponentially since. Now at 190,000 and the growth still hasn't changed.

As far I'm concerned this isn't a really problem as, being my captial, PO is not a problem so it just means more people to tax. But is this a glitch or something? That might make sense as in vanilla RTW cities weren't really meant to reach this size (I think the highest I ever saw was 60,000 in Alexandria).

Anyone else had this happen?

Pics or It didn't happen.

[Dahoota]

Oh it happened...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah, squalor seems to have maxed out at 100%. My theory is that a combination of buildings and my governor (who has quite a few growth/public health type traits and ancillaries) have allowed me to break through the squalor threshold that would have been impossible to break in the vanilla game, but is possible in this mod due to new buildings for both PO and growth.

Growth measures were one of the first buildings I made at the start of the game so I could recruit large numbers of troops, but they have been destroyed now. It also seemed to have happened around the time I built the large grain export facility, so maybe that has something to do with it. One other nearby settlement has a grain facility.

I don't really have a problem with it as we know Rome had a population of over 1 million by the 1st century CE, but I am curious if this is supposed to happen (I assume it's not).

[chris10]

weird......to say at least...
maybe an engine glitch which results in a faulty check of the growth bonus as normally around 50.000-60.000 the squalor reduces possible growth bonuses to 0% no matter what type of governor or buildings have been built...

Population figures are not supposed to be realistic...the entire engine is just an intent of an abstract simulation

[betto]

leaving a little bit of topic... what triggers plague is high pop or high squalor or both?

[Dahoota]

leaving a little bit of topic... what triggers plague is high pop or high squalor or both?

I don't know the exact details but I as I understand it at least public health and population are both factors, I think there is a very small chance every turn of any settlement having an outbreak (influenced by these factors). High public health will also reduce the length of the plague. From my experience certain areas of the map seem more prone to plague as well (Macedon for one).

Search the forums, I'm certain I've seen threads on this elsewhere

Also just had a thought....shouldn't the amount of money drawn out to pay for the armies be catastrophically high??? (If you look at the settlement details this amount is comparatively tiny, although this settlement makes a bucketload in tax now because of the population)

At 200,000 now and this settlement alone makes up nearly a third of the population of the whole empire.

[dvk901]

AFAIK, there in no limit to the population of a city....at least, I have never seen or heard of one. What 'usually' limited population were things like plagues, squalor, revolts, exterminations (done often, it seemed, to get rid of population), and lack of happiness which led to it. However, in RS2 there are a lot of 'counter-measures' to these things. Buildings that reduce squalor a lot (more than Vanilla ever did), many, many buildings that give small happiness and law bonuses, and in short ways to keep large growing cities happy.

The population control buildings will help reduce population growth...if they are built....but I'd offer that they are not always necessary. The AI does, however, like to build population growth buildings...so destroy them if you can.

[Ferdiad]

Yes, that is extremely cool, I'd love if you could get a realistic pop in Carthage.

[Boustrophedon]

If modders could find out what's causing this it would be awesome! We could finally have cities with a historical population number

[Spike]

If modders could find out what's causing this it would be awesome! We could finally have cities with a historical population number

huge cities everywhere, with kilotons of gold that can be sacked twice in row

nice

[dvk901]

The Large Grain Import building has a 20% health bonus, which is probably why it had such an effect.

[Ferdiad]

Never had that effect with that building, it caps out at below 60000 usually.

[Dahoota]

Update: The growth rate has started changing again now that the governor has died. Still growing at 1.5% with the new governor.

It only seems to be happening with Carthago though. Most other big settlements like Syracuse, Roma and Nova Carthago seem to be topping out in the 50-80,000 range (many still have growth measures in place too).

The problem with having historically correct scaled settlements is that you would need to scale up army sizes too - so armies with 10's of thousands on each size, instead of roughly 2-4000. Otherwise 0 turn recruitment campaigns in this engine would simply be insane stack spam fests. 1 turn recruitment would leave wildly disproportionate army/settlement sizes.

[chris10]

Update: The growth rate has started changing again now that the governor has died. Still growing at 1.5% with the new governor.

It only seems to be happening with Carthago though. Most other big settlements like Syracuse, Roma and Nova Carthago seem to be topping out in the 50-80,000 range (many still have growth measures in place too).

The problem with having historically correct scaled settlements is that you would need to scale up army sizes too - so armies with 10's of thousands on each size, instead of roughly 2-4000. Otherwise 0 turn recruitment campaigns in this engine would simply be insane stack spam fests. 1 turn recruitment would leave wildly disproportionate army/settlement sizes.

Things are anyway out of proportion or since when literally 100% of the population can be recruited into the army ? ...Its aprox. 15% of the overall population which could serve in the military in the case of total mobilization and that would let the countrys economy nearly in ruins as there are no men left (18-40) to work.

Its weird that you still have growth and I seriously think its an engine glitch of a faulty check...as you are the only one until now its seems that it is not reproducable or others would have stumbled over this too...

[Ferdiad]

Things are anyway out of proportion or since when literally 100% of the population can be recruited into the army ? ...Its aprox. 15% of the overall population which could serve in the military in the case of total mobilization and that would let the countrys economy nearly in ruins as there are no men left (18-40) to work.

Its weird that you still have growth and I seriously think its an engine glitch of a faulty check...as you are the only one until now its seems that it is not reproducable or others would have stumbled over this too...

I see the Pop figures as Total Military population ready to serve.