Christianity vs.Shinto-Buddhism?

[Vanoi]

Each has its pros and cons, but which one would you pick? Shinto-buddhism gives you units like the bow monk (which i really really like) while Christianity can give you european cannons. I am very curious about Christianity though, is it really worth it? Every game i have played in, any nation that accepts Christianity soon becomes hated by the world. Is all the extra stuff you get worth having everyone not like you?

[themichaelx]

Christianity isnt worth it imo.

Only bonus is the nanban trade ships.

Otherwise it brings your expansion to a grinding halt.

[InferiorBeing]

Only bonus is the nanban trade ships.

I thought the main benefit was access to muskets?

[Kazuhiro]

I thought the main benefit was access to muskets?

you can get those anyways but just more costly

[Thefallenhun]

First off its "Shinto" not "Shino" second, the only real benefits to being christian is the ability to use the missionary agent to cause large amounts of unrest, and trade bonuses and such from the nanban structures. You don't even need to go christian to get the muskets early.

[Enkidu88]

the only real benefits to being christian is the ability to use the missionary agent to cause large amounts of unrest

I find the Shinto Monks do just as well at sowing unrest. I have a maxed out monk at the moment that turned practically the entirety of "Western" Japan into rebels.

I might go Christianity my next campaign just to have everyone hate me from the start and not from the Land Divide event lol, but I don't think there are any significant benefits to converting. It was good of them to add the choice though.

[Elpadrino159]

Can you get ashigaru muskets without the nanban ports? I thought they were exclusive.

[xxoverlordxx]

Can you get ashigaru muskets without the nanban ports? I thought they were exclusive.

Yes.

[Drowsy]

I'm playing a Japanese era game. I'd rather break a alliance and loot a city than convert. Don't be tempted with quick gold, think of your children and grandchildren.

[Count Froody]

I don't need muskets, the Monk archers are way too awesome to lose. The Nanban port is pretty cool, but not really worth it considering that you can only have one.

[Border Patrol]

Christianity gives bonuses to research, and allows you to carve out an empire and keep your enemies from controlling any of your territories. You can even take their territories right out from under them.

[lsm]

if the situation is right then convert, otherwise don't. cannons are terribly powerful though... figure how archers are so important, well cannons are like that but x10000, and if its a defensive battle then it's safe to double that number. the ability to get muskets is good btw. yes you can recruit your own ashigaru/samurai musket units, but it will require a lot of research, while building a smelly garlic eating nanban port takes just a few turns. muskets make great castle defense

and of course there's the nanban ships, basically they are the black ship divided by 2 for 1/5th the cost, but only available if you convert and build the nanban quarter

so depending on who you play, converting is a decision to think about... shimazu, that's a given yes, but for the rest? if you're already on the way for warrior monks and the likes then no, but if for some reason you're suddenly on the defensive, well converting might be worth it just for the cannons

[Border Patrol]

I did it as the Oda for pure territorial concerns. I found myself at peace with at least half of my neighbors- a perfect time to use my armies to quell the unrest. And now that my neighbors have declared war? They can't hold any of my land. The unrest is too much for them.

[Reiver]

i didn't find muskets particuarly useful for castle defence. If i left them at the walls the samurai archers of the AI slaughtered them outside their musket range. If i pulled them back they were overwhelmed by yari ashigaru. They're OK in field battles but their reduced range and the AI's love of bows means they rarely have the opportunity to shine. In custom battles against more melee heavy armies they show their worth but at the moment they need tweaking to be truly useful.

The trade ships are almost worth it. Even as a northern clan you can dominate trade and that's usually worth the hit you have to take in exempting regions from tax for a couple more turns. I like the choice and although there's some changes that could improve it I found it to be a nice balance.

[RO Citizen]

I prefer Shinto-Buddhism for the monks. You can get Nanbans and Ashigaru Arquebusiers without Christianity, too, although it is harder.

[UTEMOC]

I agree with a lot what what has been stated already; conversion to Catholicism definitely has some great benefits, which have often been overlooked. To restate previous replies, and to add some opinions of my own (about conversion benefits; everyone knows the disadvantages) (sorry, I am not going to quote people):

1. Building a Namban Trade Port gives you the incredibly powerful Namban Trade Ships. These things are expensive as hell (on hard, they cost 1500 and upkeep is 250), however, if you have just one with you in your "main" fleet, you will basically be unstoppable. Just one volley from a Namban Trade Ship can almost make a Bow Kobakaya or any small ship rout (almost). A volley can also do significant damage to Medium Bunes or Sengoku Bunes from afar - it will take you a lot more time and effort to do the same amount of damage to a ship even with 3 of your own (3:1). Not to mention these NTShips gain you good cash from trade nodes.
2. You can build European Cannons which rock the battlefield when you assault castles. These guys can knock down castle gates, walls (I personally wouldn't waste ammo on these though), towers, and the central keep with incredible accuracy. They are also great at killing enemy generals in field engagements (think Empire artillery). Unfortunately, they don't have great ammo, take 3 turns to make, and cause less field damage than Mangonels (which in mid-range, can kill like 30-50 guys if spot on). That being said, Cannons are fairly accurate and slaughter cavalry if used right.
3. Teppo Ashigaru are easier to recruit early on, taking 2 instead of 4 seasons. Like people said, great in defending during sieges and quickly killing morale of an enemy unit.
4. Christian churches can improve town growth rates.
5. While your own provinces will experience discontent after conversion, after a while, converting enemy provinces hurts enemy province contentment.
6. I personally think that Missionaries are better than Monks at inciting unrest. Build up Missionary skill by converting characters and provinces, and demoralizing armies, and once they are high up, they can virtually take down entire clans from the inside out by causing near-full stacks of rebel Christian armies to swallow up provinces. Chi research can also be greatly improved by Missionaries, as compared to Monks.
7. Unlike being Buddhist, being Catholic endears you significantly to those of your own faith. You get a +50 diplomatic bonus rather than just +10, and the -10 penalty from Buddhists is not that significant. Fellow Christian clans are more likely to, in my experience, trade with you, ally with you, not declare war against you, and if you are already allied with them - not betray you.
8. Apparently Christian troops do not suffer as much fear from Buddhist monk troops? I have yet to encounter significant numbers of monk troops, so I have no idea.

Sorry for the long response. Let me know if any of these are incorrect.
I've read some posts that have said it's not really worth it to convert, and I can see their logic. Nevertheless, it makes for interesting play to convert - watch out for your daimyo's honor, as it will drop by 2.

[SaengsaWang]

I sometimes converted if every is right(at peace ,buiding up army phase).
For me the benifit of converting to Christinity is that the church give you a real advantage on chi arts research.The missionaries are also very powful once they get going.One of my missionary got like 6 enemy province rebelled so far!
And just don't forget those nanban trade ship.

[maxlurifax]

The way I see it you get benefits such as churches that improves your economy, earlier access to gunpowder and some good units (although you do loose your warrior monks), the big setback is that all of Japan is going to hate you.

[wolfbane751]

would be funny if someone was playing as the uesugi and went christianity XD

[zagy20]

I would pick Buddhism over Christianity. I dont even care about the bonuses in fact even if converting to Christianity gave you 30 new units but sticking with Shinto-Buddhism limited you to using only Ashigaru I still would not convert.