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  1. #1
    Turbo's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Miracles are acts of God ignored by man

    By definition miracles are events or acts that defy the laws of nature and logic. Someone with cancer is completely healed by the touch of a healer. A person survives injuries or is clinically dead yet inexplicably comes to life. Some with a fatal disease doesn't die. The resurrection of Christ which was doubted by one of Christ's own disciples.

    Miracles are exceptions to the our understanding of nature. They point out the flaws in our limited knowledge and understanding. They are also are tangible evidence from God that he exists and that his will can supercede the laws of nature and science which he created.

    ((Kindly respect all opinions whether you share them or not))

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Well, probably yes. But if god really wants to do something, the first thing he or she should do is stop the wars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  3. #3

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    the first thing he or she should do is stop the wars.
    So the first thing you would want god to do is remove free will?
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
    So the first thing you would want god to do is remove free will?
    Haha, of course that is not what I want to say... just if the god is so free, why doesn't he or she do something that would benefit the whole world?
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  5. #5

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    Haha, of course that is not what I want to say... just if the god is so free, why doesn't he or she do something that would benefit the whole world?
    If that were his purpose why then invent man?
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


  6. #6

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    What pride, to declare that YOU happen to know the nature of God or the nature of so called "miracles"...

  7. #7
    Siblesz's Avatar I say it's coming......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
    So the first thing you would want god to do is remove free will?
    I'd love it if God removed our free will. :original:
    Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

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  8. #8
    ex scientia lux
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo
    Miracles are exceptions to the our understanding of nature. They point out the flaws in our limited knowledge and understanding. They are also are tangible evidence from God that he exists and that his will can supercede the laws of nature and science which he created.
    Miracles aren't tangible evidence that God exists, it's tangible evidence that science is an imperfect device. Two thousand years ago, many things unexplainable by science were attributed to God that are now well understood by science. This doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means your postulation isn't logically valid.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo
    Miracles are exceptions to the our understanding of nature. They point out the flaws in our limited knowledge and understanding. They are also are tangible evidence from God that he exists and that his will can supercede the laws of nature and science which he created.
    I agree. The bottom line is that our scientific knowledge is very much limited and far from "complete". Furthurmore, we must understand that the scientific laws that govern our world are most likely not universal even within our own universe much less outside our universe.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor&Glory
    I agree. The bottom line is that our scientific knowledge is very much limited and far from "complete". Furthurmore, we must understand that the scientific laws that govern our world are most likely not universal even within our own universe much less outside our universe.
    True. We have yet to discover so much, and we have only scratched the surface. Although, that coudl mean miracles are nothing more than a rule/law of science we have yet to discover.

    Adnan

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor&Glory
    I agree. The bottom line is that our scientific knowledge is very much limited and far from "complete". Furthurmore, we must understand that the scientific laws that govern our world are most likely not universal even within our own universe much less outside our universe.
    Our scientific knowledge is limited, but taking everything we cannot currently explain scientifically and call it "Will of God" or "miracle" is not exactly rational.

    I cannot explain how exactly many items in my possession work. Does it make them miracles? Nope. As for miracle healings. Humans have proven to be very resilient little buggers. It would be greater miracle if such "miracles" DIDN'T take place.


    Everyone is warhero, genius and millionaire in Internet, so don't be surprised that I'm not impressed.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwaz
    Our scientific knowledge is limited, but taking everything we cannot currently explain scientifically and call it "Will of God" or "miracle" is not exactly rational.

    I cannot explain how exactly many items in my possession work. Does it make them miracles? Nope. As for miracle healings. Humans have proven to be very resilient little buggers. It would be greater miracle if such "miracles" DIDN'T take place.
    My point is that our scientific knowledge has a limit. There is a limit to how much we can understand and explain.

    Even if we do ever reach the point of "complete" scientific knowledge, it will still not be enough to understand all the mysteries of our own universe, much less other universes.

  13. #13
    Primicerius
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    Yes...how many people consider blackholes miracles, for instance? They are something which bastardises the laws of physics, but are they a miracle?

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Yes...how many people consider blackholes miracles, for instance? They are something which bastardises the laws of physics, but are they a miracle?
    Maybe.....

    The miracle involved in the recycling and regeneration process of our universe.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo
    By definition miracles are events or acts that defy the laws of nature and logic. Someone with cancer is completely healed by the touch of a healer. A person survives injuries or is clinically dead yet inexplicably comes to life. Some with a fatal disease doesn't die. The resurrection of Christ which was doubted by one of Christ's own disciples.

    Miracles are exceptions to the our understanding of nature. They point out the flaws in our limited knowledge and understanding. They are also are tangible evidence from God that he exists and that his will can supercede the laws of nature and science which he created.

    ((Kindly respect all opinions whether you share them or not))
    Miracles can also be leaps of faith, the very same the greeks held in their mythology as a way to explain their own limited knowledge and understanding, which has been expanded upon by our still limited knowledge and understanding. What would be the act of a god to them is an act of nature or science to us.

    As is mentioned with black holes, there exists exceptions to the rules of science and the rules of the universe, but they are not heartwarming notions of a kind hearted humanoid-personified Deity bestowing health to one person and keeping such a miracle away from another in need of it. They are likely to be explainable by the chaos that is our existance, and if not that, then cold and indifferent mathematics. Not a humanoid being whom has sole dominion over the entirety of life in this universe. 'God' then, in my mind, is most likely to be the physics, chemical formulaes, and other such things which dictate how matter and existance occurs. Not to be a simplistist King-of-the-Universe. (A bit offtopic, but related). That miracles could occur at the hand of a being whom would resemble Zeus in Greek Mythos, at least in how miracles are dealt, seems far fetched.

    Miracles that defy knowledge cannot be written off as acts of god, the way the people of old would do. It smacks of ignorance, and a willingness to accept an answer that writes off a true answer and in it's place gives something that attempts to satisfy the individual without providing any substance.

    Miracles are mysterious, and hopefully, we will never run out of mysteries to solve, new horizons to reach, and frontiers we've yet to breach. Science is a blessing to all and only a boon to the 'spirit' of man, but not as in a religious context. Rather, Science defeats the fantasy notions that inspire us and entertain us and make us think. It removes the sense of mystery and possibility. Would you rather know that there is no life out in the universe, instead of having it remain an elusive truth? I guess it's best that Religion and science do not have answers to lifes questions. Otherwise, we'd have nothing to ask about.

  16. #16
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    Do you mean miracles like this?

    CAIRO: Thousands of people have flocked to southern Egypt to seek blessing from a calf they believe was born as God's reply to the publication of cartoons depicting Muhammad.

    About 20,000 people gathered in front of Mohammed Abu Dif's house in the village of Tunis on Monday to see the holy mammal, whose skin folds when it was born reportedly formed the words "There is no God but Allah".
    Source

    Couldn't resist
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  17. #17
    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guderian
    Do you mean miracles like this?



    Source

    Couldn't resist
    Sorry I know I shouldn't just post in here to point that out. But that's not even proper grammer. Allah means ''One god'' so litterally there saying ''There is no god but one god'' Allah is not his name its a word meaning only one god. And therefore...there bloody idiots

  18. #18
    O'brien the Protector's Avatar Lord of the Mannequins
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    people use to take the motion of the planets as a proof that god exists. What, other than an army of angels, could move the planets? here we are a few hundred years later and I remember my class lauging back in fifth grade when we were told the old theory of planetary motion.

    all of the miracles one sees these days seem completly pointless and unimportant. I know that if there is a god I probobly woudn't have the ability to comprehend his infalibility or his purpose, but if you look at the things he has done in the past, all of them had a purpose to them and all of them were fiarly significant. I somehow doubt that jesus spends his time going around carving pictures of his mom on trees and sweaty blankets, not to mention fighting cancer ( although admitedly, they are very good hobies to take up once you retired).
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  19. #19

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    How do you know there is such limit and that we are not capable of understanding the functions of our universe?

    We have no such information and thus to assume that there would be some "mysteries beyond explanation" is not any more likely explanation than that we will be able to understand everything in our universe and start uncovering the others.


    Everyone is warhero, genius and millionaire in Internet, so don't be surprised that I'm not impressed.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwaz
    How do you know there is such limit and that we are not capable of understanding the functions of our universe?
    In reality we will never know because we will never know all the mysetries of our universe.

    There will always be miracles. Miracles of thousands of years ago are still unexplainable today.

    It is very likely that there is a limit on how much we can understand. We can't deny the possibility.

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