Why did they kill cavalry archers?

[hochmeister devin]

I don't understand why ca made the cavalry archers suck in this game. With only being able to shoot forward and only while stand still or Charging at a unit there point less. All you can use them is dismouting them and using them as snipers. I hope ca makes them better cause as it is they are crap.

[SonOfCrusader76]

Maybe because if they acted exactly as they do in real life (or in other TW games), they end up being far too unbalanced - almost unstoppable.

Anyway, they can shoot on the move - they can also do the circle manoeuvre from earlier TW games.

[hochmeister devin]

Mine just run and dont shoot and take ages to reform. As i said they only shoot dismounted.

[Spaxspore]

Mine just run and dont shoot and take ages to reform. As i said they only shoot dismounted.

What a

Shammmefuuuuuullll Displaaaaaay!

[Little Legionaire]

What a

Shammmefuuuuuullll Displaaaaaay!

ROFL

Even the Shogun Sensei wudnt tolerate such an insolence!

[Xelathur]

What a

Shammmefuuuuuullll Displaaaaaay!

Ontopic:

I haven't used Bow Cavalry much, but they feel somewhat underpowered. Maybe that's because they have been OP in other games?

[Stellerex]

Kinda glad they did, people spammed them stupid in M2:TW. Then again, I could live with cav archers being pretty strong if they're also pretty expensive because, come on, training a guy to shoot a bow while riding a horse is as extensive as it gets.

[hochmeister devin]

I think they should cost more and beable to shoot 360 degrees while moving. If they cost ~150-250 koku more oh well. And I don't think the old cavalry archers beasted more then the foot archer because nether did enough damage.

[Death_Sheep]

I think they should cost more and beable to shoot 360 degrees while moving. If they cost ~150-250 koku more oh well. And I don't think the old cavalry archers beasted more then the foot archer because nether did enough damage.

Due to limitations of the human body, I think the maximum fireable arc, without doing the cantabrian circle is about 270 degrees give or take...

You can see the relatively limited firing arc here a bit.

[Kraxis]

Due to limitations of the human body, I think the maximum fireable arc, without doing the cantabrian circle is about 270 degrees give or take...

You can see the relatively limited firing arc here a bit.

If we take a lefthanded user, he can lean about 25 degrees into left side before it becomes impossible to apply enough strength to pull the string, not saying anything about the accuracy. Similarly turning 180 degrees from the head of the horse is decidedly unpleasant, but doable. So the angle is less than 270.
I have to say I love this limitation in Mount&Blade. It leads to a fairly predictable route for the horse archers, which can be considered poor, but once you do it yourself you quickly notice that you do it yourself.

Anyway, I love these horse archers. Their angle could use a boost, but for gameplay reasons I don't mind that their field of shooting is no better than foot archers (which is also quite silly). The horse archers retain a significant advantage in mobility, so why on earth should they also have an advantage in field of fire? They can even charge quite well against wavering enemies, and they are really good chasers once enemies rout.
The still remain perfect flankers, they can rip the enemy flank to shreds, and provoke him to do things he might not want to. They generally attain the most kills in my armies save my Katana Cav. They are outright lovely.

[DeMolay]

Anyway, I love these horse archers. Their angle could use a boost, but for gameplay reasons I don't mind that their field of shooting is no better than foot archers (which is also quite silly). The horse archers retain a significant advantage in mobility, so why on earth should they also have an advantage in field of fire? They can even charge quite well against wavering enemies, and they are really good chasers once enemies rout.
The still remain perfect flankers, they can rip the enemy flank to shreds, and provoke him to do things he might not want to. They generally attain the most kills in my armies save my Katana Cav. They are outright lovely.

I agree with you , however the fact that vanilla foot ashigaru archers are so overpowered in term of accuracy especially but also damage , means that samurai horse archers (the most formidable battlefield unit in Japan prior to introduction of firearms ) seem like ashigarus on horse instead of highly trained , highly accurate mounted archers coupled to highly killed horsemen

Also in game the nuance between "fire in volley " and "fire at one target " is not rendered correctly , mounted samurai archers in Japan used to fire at individual targets (as opposed to Mongols who used both area shooting and individual targeting on horse ) whereas ashigarus archers used to fire over an area like most foot archers in the world

In game , the arrows of ashigarus are like modern heat sensor missiles in term of accuracy , and they don't shoot an area but shoot "men" instead , whereas only mounted archers should do that .

I also agree that the field of fire should be improved for archers on horse , simply because foot archers would shoot in group (they waited that most archers are ready before firing a volley ) otherwise "area shooting" is not efficient , so they would take more time between each "arrow volley" directed at a specific area of the battlefield , whereas mounted archers shot their arrows a lot faster because every individual fired whenever he had someone in sight and was ready .

Also in real life , the quality of arrows , the type of arrows , and the type and quality of bow used by samurai mounted archers was incomparably superior to what the huge majority of ashigarus units were equipped with , a simpler bow , cheaper , lighter and less effective arrows at range

[Ultraman]

I just hit the circle and shoot button, and they run in circles... and shoot.

[InF3sTeD]

Weren't calvary archers like the perfered method of fighting in Japanese warfare? I'd expect these units to be the best in game.

[Stil]

I love what they did with cav archers and still find them extremely useful <3

[Erwin Rommel]

Weren't calvary archers like the perfered method of fighting in Japanese warfare? I'd expect these units to be the best in game.

I was actually surprised they got included when the demo custom battle showed them. Got to try there special skill doing a cantabrian circle so that they can fire at all sides. But thats was demo.

Anyway, on the point of Japanese Warfare, when Shimazu Yoshihiro brought with him a bow durin Sekigahara, every one looked at him as old fashioned.

What? You going to gallop around when ashigaru and yari dominate the battlefield and teppo units blast anything that comes near. Nah, things changed. Sure maybe Onin and Genpei they do that.

Like Nasu Yoichi, hitting a target atop a mast of a Taira ship, on horseback, on sea. Yes I dont know why the Taira would place a fan on the top of a ship, probably teasing them or something.

[CoconutFred]

I was actually surprised they got included when the demo custom battle showed them. Got to try there special skill doing a cantabrian circle so that they can fire at all sides. But thats was demo.

Anyway, on the point of Japanese Warfare, when Shimazu Yoshihiro brought with him a bow durin Sekigahara, every one looked at him as old fashioned.

What? You going to gallop around when ashigaru and yari dominate the battlefield and teppo units blast anything that comes near. Nah, things changed. Sure maybe Onin and Genpei they do that.

Like Nasu Yoichi, hitting a target atop a mast of a Taira ship, on horseback, on sea. Yes I dont know why the Taira would place a fan on the top of a ship, probably teasing them or something.

Exactly. Nobody used mounted archers anymore, since they were completely outdated and superseded by foot archers(and later matchlocks).

[Raimeken]

Weren't calvary archers like the perfered method of fighting in Japanese warfare? I'd expect these units to be the best in game.

By the end of the Sengoku Jidai, most ashigaru and samurai alike looked at you funnily if you carried a bow in battle

[Kraxis]

By the end of the Sengoku Jidai, most ashigaru and samurai alike looked at you funnily if you carried a bow in battle

Yes, if you were a high ranking noble. The time of the bow was gone, and it was no longer a noble warweapon. It was instead a practical weapon, no more important than yari or tachi/katana, and if you brought a yari as the personal weapon, then that too would be considered odd.
However, for the rank and file troops, bows were still used. But no longer as a primary weapon, instead guarding and covering arquebusiers while they loaded. Bow had their place, but it was a significantly reduced one.

The time of personal glory and honour were long gone, hence a high ranking noble carrying a bow would be considered a relic, as he clearly sought something that no longer existed.

[Googoo24]

Yes, if you were a high ranking noble. The time of the bow was gone, and it was no longer a noble warweapon. It was instead a practical weapon, no more important than yari or tachi/katana, and if you brought a yari as the personal weapon, then that too would be considered odd.
However, for the rank and file troops, bows were still used. But no longer as a primary weapon, instead guarding and covering arquebusiers while they loaded. Bow had their place, but it was a significantly reduced one.

The time of personal glory and honour were long gone, hence a high ranking noble carrying a bow would be considered a relic, as he clearly sought something that no longer existed.

Why would the Yari be odd? The Yari was a mainstay of most armies (samurai and ashigaru) until the Edo period.

[Kraxis]

Why would the Yari be odd? The Yari was a mainstay of most armies (samurai and ashigaru) until the Edo period.

Of the rank and file. It would be considered strange is some retainer of a great general trudged around with a yari in his hands, much like if he carried a bow. They were weapons for the army, they were no longer the honourable weapons which you used to seek out suitable enemies.
Basically the poor sod would be the butt of many jokes about him not knowing his place, or if he was lost from his unit etc etc.