Screwed-up Family member stats?

[AndariusHaliusScipio]

Why is it that all character units start with zero everything, so that when they have a trait like "Loyal", their loyalty level is only 2---plenty weak to be considered a traitorous bastard, bribed away with ease?


Will this be fixed in BC3?

[wudang_clown]

There is not a single character with "zero everything".

As for loyalty - there will be loyal and disloyal characters in subsequent versions of BC. Disloyalty is not a bug, so there's nothing to fix.

[San]

The problem is that it seems the characters you start with in the campaign do not recieve the hidden +5 loyalty family members usually get. This is kind of annoying because the ones you start out with are thus always treacherous bastards.

[wudang_clown]

Yes, but that's a task for a player - to deal with disloyal characters.

[Khwarezm]

Yes, but that's a task for a player - to deal with disloyal characters.

It is actually qiute stupid to have a 16 yr old child with better loyalty, command and piety points, but no triats and a heir (his father), with lower command, piety and loyalty, but good traits where you only could dream of. It doesn't make sense.

Example: The heir doens't have standard points so starts with 0 0 0 0, but because of his traits it becomes
(good commander) (chivalrious ruler) (loyal) 2 4 2 0 it should (with standard points) be 5 4 7 3
His son has got standard points and will start with 3 0 5 3

[Dago Red]

I had a character turn on me recently, and there was no indication of who did it or where he went. Never saw him again either. I wondered if somehow he did on the spot or was assassinated by an ally immediately after. Unless it was a spy, in which case that explains why I never saw him. Can spies/assassins be bribed?

[AndariusHaliusScipio]

That's not what I mean; what I mean is, from the base game even to Rome Total War, and every other mod I've played, a family member (or general) starts with pre-set stats, which Traits then reduce/increase depending on what they are.

In this mod, and in only this mod alone that I've seen, ALL named characters start with nothing. No traits of any sort. They then receive traits regularly, but given the total "blank slate" all characters have, they're almost of no use without using cheats to increase them.

The example I gave was a character with a Loyalty trait.


From the mod's files itself:

"Loyal: Only the most difficult of situations would make this man forsake his master. +1 Chivalry, +2 Loyalty"


In-game description of someone with 2 loyalty:

"He may proclaim his loyalty as expected, though this is quite obviously just for appearances"



Something is seriously wrong here. Particularly when the majority of all characters who aren't Leaders or Heirs are universally "walking bastions of blasphemy", or a man who starts with SIX chivalry also starts with ZERO piety and ZERO loyalty.

[wudang_clown]

That's not what I mean; what I mean is, from the base game even to Rome Total War, and every other mod I've played, a family member (or general) starts with pre-set stats, which Traits then reduce/increase depending on what they are.

In this mod, and in only this mod alone that I've seen, ALL named characters start with nothing. No traits of any sort. They then receive traits regularly, but given the total "blank slate" all characters have, they're almost of no use without using cheats to increase them.

The example I gave was a character with a Loyalty trait.

I think there is some kind of misunderstanding. This is what you can find in BC 2.02 descr_strat.txt:

;;Konya Province
character	Kilij_Arslan, named character, male, leader, age 46, x 46, y 134
traits Factionleader 1 , GoodCommander 2 , PublicFaith 2, BattleChivalry 2 
army
unit		bodyguard turks				exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman medium archer cavalry regular bow				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman medium archer cavalry regular bow				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman medium archer cavalry regular bow				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman medium archer cavalry regular bow				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javelinmen				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javelinmen				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		levy me axemen				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		levy me axemen				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javelinmen				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javelinmen				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0


;;Kayseri
character	Kaikosru, named character, male, heir, age 27, x 73, y 147
traits Factionheir 1 , GoodCommander 2 , PublicFaith 1 , ReligionStarter 1, Loyal 3 
army
unit		bodyguard turks				exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman light archer cavalry regular bow				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman light archer cavalry regular bow				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javelinmen				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javelinmen				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		levy me light archers				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		levy me light archers				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

;;Ankara
character	Malik, named character, male, age 29, x 53, y 148
traits Loyal 2, GoodAdministrator 2  
army
unit		bodyguard turks				exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman light archer cavalry regular bow				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman light archer cavalry regular bow				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman light archer cavalry regular bow				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman light archer cavalry regular bow				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javcav				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javcav				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javelinmen				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javelinmen				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javelinmen				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turks medium javelinmen				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		levy me axemen				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		levy me axemen				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

;;Sivas
character	Toghrul, named character, male, age 22, x 90, y 161
traits GoodCommander 4 , PublicFaith 2 , StrategyDread 3
army
unit		bodyguard turks				exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman light archer cavalry regular bow				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		turkoman light archer cavalry regular bow				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		levy me light archers				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit		levy me light archers				exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

This is only an example of one faction. There are no named characters with absolutely none traits. Each named character has at least one trait. Just check the file.

I think you have just focused on loyalty/disloyalty traits, and in that case you are right, I'll explain more on this below, but conclusion that all characters have no traits at all is clearly not true - and that's what the file tells you, and the file doesn't lie.

From the mod's files itself:

"Loyal: Only the most difficult of situations would make this man forsake his master. +1 Chivalry, +2 Loyalty"


In-game description of someone with 2 loyalty:

"He may proclaim his loyalty as expected, though this is quite obviously just for appearances"

Something is seriously wrong here. Particularly when the majority of all characters who aren't Leaders or Heirs are universally "walking bastions of blasphemy", or a man who starts with SIX chivalry also starts with ZERO piety and ZERO loyalty.

That inconsistence is an effect of lack of those hidden base loyalty traits, true. That "Loyal: Only the most difficult of situations..." is sensible only with hidden LoyaltyStarter set, which gives character Loyalty 5. With additional +2 of Loyalty that makes an character "Loyal", sure, but then he has 7 (5+2) Loyalty.

Without LoyaltyStarter set, character starts with 0 Loyalty, and setting of Loyalty 2 trait gives him only +2 Loyalty, but effects also in annoying inconsistence, because trait description states that he is loyal, when in fact he is not.

In that case I agree that this should be fixed and it will be in 2.3.

[wudang_clown]

Let's keep few things clear:

Father - Faction Leader
Son - Faction Heir

Also, as far as I know, the only hidden traits that affect characters' statistics are LoyaltyStarter and ReligionStarter, but those are traits too. Statistics are governed via traits only.

The rest is problematic. The son may be a better commander than his father. +3 Command means "This man has proven himself to be able to command men in battle very effectively" and it may be surprising as a feature of 16 yo young man, true, but you won't find such character in BC, so let's stick to the facts, please, okay?

A youngest faction heir with GoodCommander trait is 20 yo, and he has GoodCommander 2, which makes him Aspiring Commander ("This man has shown he has a sound set of battle tactics, and the ability to command men"). That's not too much, especially if his father has just the same level of GoodCommander trait.

An heir with highest level of GoodCommander trait - that is level 5 - is 40 yo, so old enough to actually have a possibility to gain such experience.

Given the above, please provide real examples of flaws taken directly from the game.