How to play Matchlock

[Rathiel]

Hey, can anybody give me some advice on how to use matchlock units offensiveley and even to some effect while defending? I got quite some trouble to use those guys effectively (using 2-3 squads mostly Ashigaru).

Wehn attacking and using them to kill some enemy lines, they either get decimated to 1/2 squad size trough arrow fire while approaching (even in loose formation) or get charged by cav or melee troops while trying to set up, which takes ages.

Even while defending these guys don't even shoot more then one or two volleys until they get caught by enemy units and therefore need to run away.


I would be ok with this if you could even use them after they retreated behind your melee lines. But its not even possible to use them anymore from that point unless you want to shoot you own units in the back.

My best success in using them so far was by dividing my army in left/right while having one side with troops to charge into melee with some bowmen and the other side having matchlock and naginata/yari units behind them and tying the biggest part of the enemy up with my melee troops which ensures the matchlock units still have something to shoot on, but they still get charged pretty quick since they don't get the enemy units to rout.

So in almost every match matchlock units have the least number of kills which makes them feel like a waste in any army setup to me. Only exception are matchlocks warrior monks so far, but still not effective enough for their hefty price i think.

[Empyrean]

They make for pretty good anti-armor units, in siege defense. If they've got naginata infantry or dismounted general bodyguards climbing up the walls, your matchlocks will kill a lot more of them than archers would. I'm assuming the guns scare the enemy like they have since the first Shogun, but I haven't confirmed this.

[Rathiel]

Sure they pwn in siege defence, but thats not helpful at all in open terrain battles ....

Only using this unit in siege battles seems like a waste to me.
I started a campaign especially with the goal to tech for matchlocks to have some other types of battles then normally when you go for katanas, or yari. I want to use them some more in custom/ Avatar matches in mp as well, but as i said then don't seem viable to me.

[Empyrean]

Sure they pwn in siege defence, but thats not helpful at all in open terrain battles ....

So don't take them out in the open. Leave them for garrison duty; they're dirt cheap anyway. Even if they're only limited to siege defense, they're very good at that.

Depending on terrain, you can also use them to defend bridges effectively. The bridges have an arc to them, and the terrain sometimes has a little depression at the base of the bridge. Put your naginatas or yari ashigaru on the depression with the matchlocks on the elevated position behind so they can fire on the bridge without hitting your own troops.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Put them on a hill when possible, that way they can shoot over your infantry line. If no hill is around, put them on your flanks and try to get some shots off as the enemy infantry approaches and engages your infantry.

[Slaists]

if playing against the AI: put 3 or 4 matchlocks together in a line like you would line infantry; put them in skirmish mode. put naginata (or yari ashigaru) right behind the matchlocks in guard mode. put this formation right in the middle of your line.

works like an AI magnet. cavalry would charge your matchlocks while getting shot to pieces. the remainders would perish against your spears as matchlocks retreat. of course, don't try this against a human

[Slanderbot]

if playing against the AI: put 3 or 4 matchlocks together in a line like you would line infantry; put them in skirmish mode. put naginata (or yari ashigaru) right behind the matchlocks in guard mode. put this formation right in the middle of your line.

works like an AI magnet. cavalry would charge your matchlocks while getting shot to pieces. the remainders would perish against your spears as matcholocks retreat. of course, don't try this against a human

You can actually use this to great effect vs a human as well, however you must manage your matchlocks as to only move into range at the last possible moment as your opponent will just cut them down with bow fire otherwise.

[homefry]

you never want to use these guys on attack.

melee troops should always be leading your main battle line unless you have arrow superiority.

on defense, 1-2 units spread out thin. spear units directly behind them, melee units directly behind spears, and then 5 meters behind them, archers. you react to what the enemy does. if you get a cavalry charge, pull back your guns and let the spears get the cavalry. if infantry charge, let the guns continue to fight and only pull them back once the units meet. rush in with your melee troops.

if archers come forward to pepper you with arrows and their arches are just out of range of your archers and guns this gets tricky. you will notice the enemy bow infantry leading the walk charge. in this case, you move your whole army forward to meet the range of the enemy arrows.

[Aetius]

I actually didn't like Matchlocks too much until I played the historical battle of Nagashino.


I now copy Oda Nobunaga's tactics in battle. Set up your Matchlocks and build a bamboo defense. Then between those walls put any spear unit, preferably yari ashigaru in spear wall (if the enemy are cavalry) Enemy soldiers get funneled into these chockpoints getting shot at point blank. Watch AI armies get absolutely decimated.

This doesn't work if they have archer spam. Always bring like 4 matchlocks (at least) and 1 to 2 archers + some cavalry to ward them off. Matchlocks will beat archers 1v1, despite archers having longer range. Matchlocks are the decisive portion of my Shogunate armies. I prefer Matchlock Ashigaru because of their expandability and numbers over samurai matchlocks.

Essentially, just copy pike and shot tactics and your army can defeat uberpro samurai banzai charges every time.

[brn4meplz]

They are missile troops but of a misleading nature. ideally you don't want them in front as you would archers(extenuating circumstances apply like heavily armoured units that need to die) Once battle is joined you can then move these units around to the edges or sides of your units and fire into the backs of your enemy. Also, if you're on higher terrain then them you can fairly safely fire over your own troops into the enemies ranks even when joined in battle.

I just finshed a campaign as the Oda and 80% of my army was Matchlock Ashigaru(I had to do alot of castle defence with the whole of Japan at war with me) Alternatively Matchlock units function best at killing high armour units and breaking Morale. So sometimes shooting your own troops in the back is quite effective at breaking the enemies Morale and you may lose less troops in the long run.

[Rathiel]

To bad, seems like nobody found any good use for them when attacking. Btw. is it possible to shoot throught archers in loose formation without causing friendly fire ?

[blixs89]

From my experience they're completely useless. It takes forever for them to set up and by the time they can fire a shot the enemy is already upon them and with their short range it's not a good idea to have them on skirmish. Their volleys NEVER break the enemy even the common Ashigaru. They're not good for offense and they're not good for defense.

CA really nerfed the arquebus and I'm hoping that someone will release a mod that will fix this injustice and turn it into the revolutionary weapon that it was.

[Slaists]

From my experience they're completely useless. It takes forever for them to set up and by the time they can fire a shot the enemy is already upon them and with their short range it's not a good idea to have them on skirmish. Their volleys NEVER break the enemy even the common Ashigaru. They're not good for offense and they're not good for defense.

CA really nerfed the arquebus and I'm hoping that someone will release a mod that will fix this injustice and turn it into the revolutionary weapon that it was.

I'm not sure they need any buffs. In my battles versus the AI, my arquebusiers constantly come out as the top killers...

[blixs89]

I'm not sure they need any buffs. In my battles versus the AI, my arquebusiers constantly come out as the top killers...

I've tried everything with them and they are simply no good. I expect them to shatter cavalry charges and easily route Ashigaru units but instead they get slaughtered even after killing a good number of the enemy unit. It's as if their fire has no effect whatsoever on the enemies morale.

[Skellig]

Try this:

6 Matchlocks. 4 Katanas. 2 Cavalry. 2 Yari.

Use cavalry forces as screens and distractions. Attempt to either engage the enemy archers/range units or get their attention long enough for your main forces to march without being under fire. #

3 matchlocks on either side of a 4 katana centre. Yaris in front of them.

C-Y---------------Y-C
-MMM-KKKK-MMM-
------------G---------

Engage with you melee katanas with general as support. If you have cavalry, try to use them to wean off some of the enemy forces from the main assualt or use the opportunity to hit flanks or destroy archers.

Your match locks should aim to flank around. Ideally, they should already be moving around the sides just as the katana's hit enemy lines. Yaris are there for support against cavalry and extra melees.

Don't worry about doing two or three lines with the match locks so much. 4 or 5 line bulk will be sufficient (and less time to set up).

When your matchlocks start firing, you should quickly see the flanks crumbling giving your katana units the ability to concentrate on the centre.

[Slaists]

I've tried everything with them and they are simply no good. I expect them to shatter cavalry charges and easily route Ashigaru units but instead they get slaughtered even after killing a good number of the enemy unit. It's as if their fire has no effect whatsoever on the enemies morale.

How many do you have in your firing line? 1 might be insufficient. When I have 3-4 (with overlapping fields of fire), they frequently rout advancing enemies with 1-2 volleys.

[blixs89]

How many do you have in your firing line? 1 might be insufficient. When I have 3-4 (with overlapping fields of fire), they frequently rout advancing enemies with 1-2 volleys.

3-4 you say? Never tried it with that many, the most I've ever used at any given time was 2 units formed in ranks of three. I guess I'll have to try that then.

Edit:
So I recently tried it out. I could kiss you, they work perfectly against most units at the least the ones that are effected by moral shock. Looks like I'll be employing 3-4 arquebus in my next army.

[Thoragoros]

From my experience they're completely useless. It takes forever for them to set up and by the time they can fire a shot the enemy is already upon them and with their short range it's not a good idea to have them on skirmish. Their volleys NEVER break the enemy even the common Ashigaru. They're not good for offense and they're not good for defense.

CA really nerfed the arquebus and I'm hoping that someone will release a mod that will fix this injustice and turn it into the revolutionary weapon that it was.

My experience as well.

I see people saying how guns and pikes pwn 'uberpro samurai' armies, and I'm like O_o

I line up my Matchlocks in front of my main battle line like I would my archers, whether on defense or offense, and either await the attack or send them forward with the pikes behind, and no matter what, 1-2 shots, maybe a full volley, and they've dealt about half the damage archers would, and then need to retreat.

Once they have withdrawn, they are useless unless I want to shoot my own guys in the back.

Maybe a slight boost in range? Maybe a slight buff in numbers? I really just don't see the point when I can get versatile, lethal archers for less koku.

[Bylandt]

The stats don't lie:

Yari Bowmen shoot farther and faster than matchlock troops. And they take only one turn to train, instead of 4 (which should be the other way round BTW). And most important: cost only half in maintenance (IMO always the most important statistic).

[blixs89]

The stats don't lie:

Yari Bowmen shoot farther and faster than matchlock troops. And they take only one turn to train, instead of 4 (which should be the other way round BTW). And most important: cost only half in maintenance (IMO always the most important statistic).

The purpose I believe is to either reflect the time consuming process of importing guns and later their manufacture or to ensure gameplay balance. Like you I was unsatisfied with their performance until someone told me how to use them correctly and when handled right they are devestating the key is to group them up so that their fire overlaps. Even the most experienced samurai unit and hardened cavalry will break from repeated volleys from 4 matchlock units.