There is already an wonderful provincal campaign about the ruin of Arnor in work. I would propose a submod about the kin-strife in Gondor. This historical provincal campaign could play in Gondor and Umbar.
Kin-strife:
Lore information:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The Kin-strife began in 1432 of the Third Age and lasted until 1448. On one side were the loyal supporters of King Eldacar, and on the other side were the rebels led by Castamir. The rebels opposed King Eldacar because he was not of pure Numenorean descent. Eldacar's father was Valacar of Gondor and his mother was Vidumavi, the daughter of King Vidugavia of Rhovanion. Valacar had been sent to Rhovanion by his father Romendacil II as an ambassador to strengthen relations between their peoples. Eldacar was born in Rhovanion and spent his early childhood there.
The people of Rhovanion were Northmen, while the people of Gondor were Dunedain descended from the survivors of Numenor. Some of the Dunedain of Gondor disapproved of their future King being of mixed blood because they believed the Northmen to be inferior. In addition, the Northmen had shorter lifespans which they feared Eldacar's descendants would inherit. They also resented the favor shown to the Northmen who were in the service of Gondor.
During the last years of King Valacar's reign, dissension began to grow, especially in the southern provinces of Gondor. When Eldacar became King in 1432, open war broke out. Eldacar and his supporters fought hard but eventually they were besieged in Osgiliath. As the siege dragged on, supplies ran out and the people of Osgiliath were starving.
In 1437, the rebels overwhelmed Osgiliath and set fire to the city. The Dome of Osgiliath was destroyed and the palantir was lost in the Anduin. Eldacar and some of his people fled to Rhovanion, but Eldacar's son Ornendil was captured and was slain on the orders of the rebel leader Castamir, and many others were slaughtered as well.
Castamir usurped the throne of Gondor. He was the grandson of the younger brother of King Romendacil II. He had a large following among the rebels, particularly those from the coasts because he was a Captain of Ships. He moved his capital to Pelargir and had little interest in the land. He was cruel and merciless to those who opposed him, and because of this more people from the regions around Osgiliath began to turn against him.
Eldacar gathered his strength in Rhovanion. In 1447, after ten years of exile, he returned to Gondor with a great army including a number of Northmen. Men from Anorien, Calenardhon, and Ithilien joined him. In the Battle of the Crossings of Erui, Eldacar slew Castamir and reclaimed the kingship of Gondor. Many Men of Gondor were killed. Afterwards, some of the Northmen remained in Gondor and intermarried with the Dunedain.
Castamir's sons and a number of other rebels escaped to Pelargir. The rebels were besieged until 1448, when they escaped and sailed to the Havens of Umbar on the coast of Harad. They and their descendants became known as the Corsairs and they threatened Gondor's coasts and ships for centuries to come.
Factions:
Starting Date: 1432
North Gondor / House of Eldacar :
Leader: King Eldacar Heir: Prince Aldamir
Culture: Northmen
Map:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Units:
North Gondor should have three different regions, with three diferent unit rosters: Calenarthon, Rhovanion and the Local Lords in the rest of Gondor. Eldacar should have more light units with light armor, with not much metal and only few knight. Eldacar had the northern regions, which were not the main region of Gondor and especialy not the most dense populated regions and they were furthermore poorer than the southern regions. Eldarcar should need especially Rhovanion for victory.
Tier 2
Calenarthon Knights
Calenarthon Speermen
or
Rhovanion Knights
Rhovanion Horsearchers
or
Feudal Knights
Tier 3
Knights of Eldacar
AOR:
Swan Knights
Guard of the King's House (Osgiliath)
Bowman of Minas Ithil
South Gondor / House of Castamir :
Leader: King Castamir Heir: Prince Teldumeir
Culture: Numenorean
Map:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Units:
South Gondor, which was very rich, fertile and dense populated, should produce very heavy and stronge units. The Marine militia - Castamir's power based on the marine - should be the base of Castamirs military, but the really strong units shouldn't be marines. The heavy units should have metal weapons and armor. E.g. the could use for Tier 2 the Gondor units from the main campaign. Furthermore there should be alot of heavy local units, showing that Castamirs power was also based on the local lord in the south supporting him.
I think its a great idea and i think about it some time ago, but I don´t have any modding skill to help you, perhaps can learn scripting but now I haven´t any time.
PD: Im currently working on the Rohan provinces but the work goes veeery slowly.
so sadly there is not much interested in such a sub mod
That's because you're proposing this mod as an idea, but it doesn't seem like you are willing to work for it yourself much (I could be wrong though). But to me it just seems like you want this: "if someone likes this idea please make this mod". But that's just not the way how it works.
If you really want this sub-mod to be made, you should do more than just putting up some suggestions. Someone needs to take the first step for this mod. There has to be someone out there who should start doing some actual work/modding. And that guy probably has to be you... nobody is going to do it for you. Most of the time people only join modding teams when there is already some work done.
There are quite a lot of modders out there who would be willing to help a mod like this. But they just don't feel like starting this project themselves.
That said, I do think this is one of the more interesting periods of Tolkien lore, so it would be really interesting to see a mod like this being made.
[...] you're proposing this mod as an idea, but it doesn't seem like you are willing to work for it yourself much (I could be wrong though). But to me it just seems like you want this: "if someone likes this idea please make this mod". But that's just not the way how it works.
If you really want this sub-mod to be made, you should do more than just putting up some suggestions. Someone needs to take the first step for this mod. There has to be someone out there who should start doing some actual work/modding. And that guy probably has to be you... nobody is going to do it for you. Most of the time people only join modding teams when there is already some work done.
There are quite a lot of modders out there who would be willing to help a mod like this. But they just don't feel like starting this project themselves.
That said, I do think this is one of the more interesting periods of Tolkien lore, so it would be really interesting to see a mod like this being made.
I think it's a great idea, and obviously well thought out.
The tale of Legio IV Flavia Felix: After cowardice during the Revolt of 69-70 AD the IV Macedonian was reconstituted and renamed IV Flavia Felix, or "lucky legion" signifying its luck at not being dishonorably disbanded.
so sadly there is not much interested in such a sub mod
well, IMO I think lots of people read this thread, they think "cool, maybe something good can be done with this!" and stop there... and they would like to contribute, but, I believe, most of them have no modding skills so couldn't help you ever if they want.
I like the idea of the campaign. I tried to play smthng similar with vanilla, but i discovered the same faction cannot be in opposite alinements
I like the banners too (expecially the golden one) but faction names seems me unappropriate. I mean, in civil wars nobody call himself "northern" or "southern". wouldn't better call them "House of Eldacar/Casamir"?
I think it would be great for Harad and Dunland be playable factions: you, a minor faction, profit of Gondor's situation to raise in power!
And Silvan Elves should be non-playable, unless you put a faction to naturally fight against them.
Maybe a Dol Guldur Faction, if it does not unbalance the whole campaign (and the map is big enough)?
oh another thing... shouldn't Fangorn be a rebel area?
last thing... why not some northmen mercenaries for Eldacar, representing various northmen tribes?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
howewer, i think your is a good idea for a sub-mod.
I AM interested in it and I'd like to help you, but I belong to the category described before (No skills at all but will of contribute). So if you're gonna to build up a team, I'd like to help with research and/or writing (wich seem to be not linked with editing existing files... you cannot make disaster with them ).
If you want me, just whistle.
I like the banners too (expecially the golden one) but faction names seems me unappropriate. I mean, in civil wars nobody call himself "northern" or "southern". wouldn't better call them "House of Eldacar/Casamir"?
in total war games the faction leaders die often, and it would be strange to have a Castimir faction when Castimir is already dead, don't you think so?
last thing... why not some northmen mercenaries for Eldacar, representing various northmen tribes?
first post:
Rhovanion units in the North Eastern regions, Rhovanion merchants, Eotheod Riders
This would be my dream sub-mod! I have many ideas for Kin-Strife:Total War that I would love to share. The problem is, thats all they will be; ideas, as I have no modding skill at all. But If you want to crack on with some concept work so as to attract some chaps with technical modding ability, I'd happily be all the help I can.
Last edited by Lord Tywin; April 15, 2011 at 11:20 AM.
'A sword is not strong until it has been tempered'
Well, rather than post a monster thread with all my ideas, i'll just voice them as an when is appropriate.
1. I agree with Kiliį Alė, the faction names would be better as House of Eldacar/Castamir. Technically their heirs would still belong to this house after the leaders die. For example if Castamir dies or is killed his hier (Prince Teldumeir) would become faction leader but he still would be a member of House Castamir. An alternative to this is would be to call Castamir's faction the 'Castmiri' i.e followers/relatives of Castamir. Tolkien actually refered to Castamir's political faction as 'The Confederates', so that is another option. 'Castamiri Confederates'? Although I think Tolkien was using the term 'confederate' in its literal sense rather than an offcial epithet.
2. I had some thoughts towards making Dol Amroth a seperate faction as a counter to Castamir's very strong position in the south. They could be neutral and Dol Amroth's loyalty and support could be a prize for both Gondorian factions. I would love to be able to make Umbar a faction but unless this could be made a permanent Vassal to Castamir, it wouldnt really be lore accurate, as Umbar was a hotbed of support for Castamir. I think a handful of Umbar AOR units would give it sufficient representation (Marines, City Guard and Hinterland Squires).
3. I like the idea of making the culture of Eldacar's faction as Northmen. However, you could make the culture an optional one like in the Brittania Campaign. The player could choose between Dunadain and Northman culture and each one could present advantages and disadvantages. For example, if the player chose to encource the Northern culture, Rhovanian units could be come availble (could be based on Dales late game units in vanilla). If the payer wnet for Dunadain, they could get more typically Gondorian soldiers.
4. I would note at this point that I dont agree with giving Casamir's faction Numenorean culture. They should have very strong Dunadanic culture but with a push towards a feel of the 'sea-kings' being reborn. Castimir's faction should be as nautically theamed as possible. Some new mariner/marine/privateer units could really bolster that feel in addition to reduced costs for ships. To add to this, Castamir (and his hiers could get bonuses for trade and penalties for farming). Also missions and scripts could all have a 'Sea-King' orientation.
5. Harad and Dunland (or Easterlings) should definately be included to counter both Castamir and Eldacar's power respectively.
These are just some of my thoughts. When/if the discussion moves into other areas of the concept I will happily post the rest. Have to many for one post.
'A sword is not strong until it has been tempered'
Most of the hard work has been done already, it just needs to be altered a bit.
There have to be done a new map, maby with additional navigable rivers, more cities in the map region and new unique buildings. Furthermore there need to be done units for both sides and aor units for alot of regions and the most important cities.
I have an idea, why don't you make this like the Silmarillion sub-mod which means you create a totally new campaign.
What would be the advantage of this?
2. I had some thoughts towards making Dol Amroth a seperate faction as a counter to Castamir's very strong position in the south. They could be neutral and Dol Amroth's loyalty and support could be a prize for both Gondorian factions. I would love to be able to make Umbar a faction but unless this could be made a permanent Vassal to Castamir, it wouldnt really be lore accurate, as Umbar was a hotbed of support for Castamir. I think a handful of Umbar AOR units would give it sufficient representation (Marines, City Guard and Hinterland Squires).
Do you have any lore sources about dol amroth at the time of the kin-strife?
PS.: If the two other factions are called "House of Eldacar" and "House of Castamir" a third faction called Dol Amroth would be strange, wouldn't it?
3. I like the idea of making the culture of Eldacar's faction as Northmen. However, you could make the culture an optional one like in the Brittania Campaign. The player could choose between Dunadain and Northman culture and each one could present advantages and disadvantages. For example, if the player chose to encource the Northern culture, Rhovanian units could be come availble (could be based on Dales late game units in vanilla). If the payer wnet for Dunadain, they could get more typically Gondorian soldiers.
It's more a matter of blood. The people in the south and umbar had numenorean blood, while the gondorians in the inland of gondor and calenarthon were of the blood of northmen. therefore it would be also reasonable to need northmen cultur for northmen units and the dunedain culture for numenorean units.
Last edited by Isildor; April 17, 2011 at 02:27 AM.
Kin-strife as provincal campaign
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Originally Posted by Isildor
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