I've broken the game with 3 ninjas

[Nastyvale]

Hi everybody. As the title says, I've broken it big time. Here's how:

Started a short N/N campaign as Takeda. Took out the rebels on the first turn, upgraded Kai.

Next turn, North Shinano falls. Initiated trade agreements with everyone and allied with Hojo. I've built a ninja jouse in North Shinano and set tax levels to low to stimulate growth. Kai castle was upgraded and yari dojo built to make Yari cavalry available.

With West and South borders secure, next target was Anegakoji, followed by Kiso. I've had a couple of pretty decent engagements with these two. Built another ninja house at South Shinano, trained another ninja. Another province, another ninja house so I'm running 3 ninjas ahead of my stacks to scout Hattori which had about 8 provicnes and guess what? Nothing comes out of Hattori castles as long as they are within my ninja's line of sight.

Waited till legendary horse dojo was built and upgraded provinces as usual, with only Kai military focused.

Declared war on Hattori and waltzed right through three unguarded provinces in one turn. All of them were within my ninja line of sight so nothing came out of these castles. Looks like the phantom army 'feature' is in the game.

In the year 1555 I've got 8 provinces, broken Hattori's back, my ally Uesugi (oh the irony) took out Hojo. Military forces consist of high veterancy cavalry -after the legendary horse dojo bonus and fortress in Kai which allowed cavalry to be trained in a single turn instead of 2- and yari-bow ashigaru. All it takes is another ninja 'push' to scout ahead and render the remaining Hattori castles unguarded so my 3 half-stacks can just waltz in.

Another comment, perhaps the ghost stacks or recruitment bonii given to minor clans is what kills off half of the great clans in the beginning (Oda, Shimazu, Date) occasionally.

There's something rotten in the kingdom of Denmark.....

[GambleFish]

I wouldn't call that breaking the game, just good scouting. Breaking the game with ninjas involves sabotaging every farm in a clan's territory on the same turn, then repeating that until they run out of money to repair them or are swallowed by massive revolts. It's almost too easy if you use a few monks to speed the process along.

[waidizss]

Some guy, as i remember, placed a ninja near some bridge and enemy army couldn't pass it, so he built up and pwned the enemy army. Why hell A.I. fears ninjas and why can't they pass them through???
Answer: ubber smartness of CA

[OmniJackal]

Some people think that the AI cheats by spawning full stack armies. I think what he meant by his ninja broke the game is that because the castles in question could be seen by him, the AI didnt dare cheat thereby breaking it (or at least circumventing what the programmers allegedly made the AI do). I however still dont believe it. Will wait for a FOW mod. This is interesting at any rate. Love ninja, love the Takeda. And I love lamp.

[St. Cyr]

Destroying a farm with a ninja makes no sense at all realistically. What's he gonna do, rip up every single plant? He can't douse a field in gasoline and light it up either.

I'm gonna see if we can change this...

[Death_Sheep]

Destroying a farm with a ninja makes no sense at all realistically. What's he gonna do, rip up every single plant? He can't douse a field in gasoline and light it up either.

I'm gonna see if we can change this...

Its more like he blows up the stockpiles of rice for the next few months. Thats how I always saw it.

[MisterV]

Destroying a farm with a ninja makes no sense at all realistically. What's he gonna do, rip up every single plant? He can't douse a field in gasoline and light it up either.

I'm gonna see if we can change this...

It makes no less sense than one ninja sabotaging supplies for a whole army. You must imagine it as a symbolic representation of his actions; he'll obviously round up a few thugs and pay them to burn warehouses and stockpiles of rice (including those meant for seeding next year), destroying a couple dams, etc.
That said, gameplay-wise it is too cheap and can be game-breaking.

[Stubudd]

Destroying a farm with a ninja makes no sense at all realistically. What's he gonna do, rip up every single plant? He can't douse a field in gasoline and light it up either.

I'm gonna see if we can change this...

i could sabotage a farm and i'm not even a ninja


burn down the storehouse, poison the oxen, whatever

[AngryTitusPullo]

Some guy, as i remember, placed a ninja near some bridge and enemy army couldn't pass it, so he built up and pwned the enemy army. Why hell A.I. fears ninjas and why can't they pass them through???
Answer: ubber smartness of CA

The ninja kept sabotaging the bridge so that the army cannot cross.

[Death_Sheep]

The ninja kept sabotaging the bridge so that the army cannot cross.

We can sabotage bridges?

[AngryTitusPullo]

We can sabotage bridges?

Nah... rather than thinking it's a bug just imagine it a s a feature. That's how I've been enjoying playing games. As long as the bug didn't cause CTD of course.

[waidizss]

Nah... rather than thinking it's a bug just imagine it a s a feature. That's how I've been enjoying playing games. As long as the bug didn't cause CTD of course.

Never! If it isn't there i am not going to make it up. CA expects me to believe that AI is good by giving it armour/morale... bonuses? It's a cheap trick for which their clan chief should be beheaded.

[Inazuma]

I have noticed this too. In my current Shimazu campaign, Ive had an assortment of agents that are always ahead of where my provinces are. And guess what? I've seen a drastic decrease in the number of full stacks appearing out of nowhere.

[arrack]

I've seen this as well. I like to have good scouting so all my agents are running around among the enemy provinces. Very few military units appear and the AI hardly builds units either as long as you watch what is happening. As said, a FOW remover will clarify this. Or it might be impossible as it would break the AI...who knows, more inane programming stunts have been pulled...

Or is the AI seriously afraid of my scrumpy old fellow with the kooky hat (MONK) running around chewing rice cakes?

[OTZ]

That's sad, but not surprising. CA's magic doom-stacks have an achilles heel.

[Slaists]

A FOW remover would clarify this... (as in, is the AI training their troops or they're just popping up in FOW zones)

[Ender_7]

A FOW remover would clarify this... (as in, is the AI training their troops or they're just popping up in FOW zones)

There's already a FOW remover, check the Mod Workshop. And it's confirmed that armies just pop up in a bunch of threads, like this one: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=434941 or this one http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=434940

[August]

Excellent find!

Will make my Legendary campaign soooooo much easier.

[Slaists]

Excellent find!

Will make my Legendary campaign soooooo much easier.

Well, what's the point of making a legendary campaign EASIER? Just crank the difficulty down...

Other than that, for me it starts to feel that sending ninjas ahead of your force to keep tabs of several enemy provinces DOES reduce their military might. I guess, the random spawns are there.

Come to think of it, I believe, I witnessed an enemy fleet spawn (with an army on it) in the FOW area near my coast. I was blockading all Northern sea accesses to my territory and suddenly, a war fleet appeared behind my blockade carrying a full stack...

[TheArtofTotalWar]

Hey this is my first post, and I registered solely to raise these points. Hello, and I love tw center, its a good resource and been using it for years.

In case you didn't notice in all Total War games the enemy factions gained bonuses and buffs on the higher difficulty settings - I think the only reason people are moaning about cheating on this game is because they are actually getting beaten and rushed by the more aggressive AI. I think that in this game, the diplomatics and alliance system is by far superior to any I've played (though never played napolean or etw due to gun powder centered armies).

Secondly; The game is based on the art of war as they have stated, If you have read the art of war it has this to say when it comes to spying;
"And so the means by which an enlightened sovereign and a wise general act, and so are victorious over others and achieve merit superior to the multitude’s — THIS IS FOREKNOWLEDGE.
Foreknowledge cannot be grasped from ghosts and spirits; Cannot be inferred from events; Cannot be projected from calculation. It must be grasped from people’s knowledge."
"If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril. "
"It is only the enlightened ruler and the wise general who will use the highest intelligence of the army for the purposes of spying, and thereby they achieve great results. "

- I don't think they are exact quotes, well they seem different from the translation of the book I've read; But in a nutshell, Sun Tzu says spying on your opponent is key to victory and very important in warfare, because how do you know what your enemy is up to, if you are not spying on them? For all your army knows, for all you know as the daimyo, you do not know their troops strength, or position - You do not know their capability. Which is basically why and how they spawn these troops - Because as far as you're kingdom is concerned, you don't know what they have.

Anyway, I hope that clears a few things up, because these comments on here were starting to annoy me.

Random quotes which I believe are of importance to the game;
"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him."
"If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected."
"Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor dampened, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue... In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."
"He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces. He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks. He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared. He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign."
"So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak."
"We cannot enter into alliances until we are acquainted with the designs of our neighbors."
"Unhappy is the fate of one who tries to win his battles and succeed in his attacks without cultivating the spirit of enterprise; for the result is waste of time and general stagnation. Hence the saying: The enlightened ruler lays his plans well ahead; the good general cultivates his resources."

Peace out