Honour in our lives.

[Aragorn]

This post is about hearing what honourable and notable things you have done recently.

Im fed up seeing this materialistic world ruin peoples moral compass by telling them to act in a certain way. Either by fashion magazines or crappy shows WHATEVER. I need to know that there are some people out there who have respect for themselves and those around them. And who can make their own decisions independently from outside presume. Because life is all about other people.

I know this sounds like some communist ranting on about the most stupid youve ever heard. For me atleast Id like to know why nice guys always come last. Why dont women respect a good hard working man for what he is. I swear sometimes I was born in the wrong century.

My latest honorable deed:

Was to refuse a woman relations because she was already engaged in a relationship with another man, even though I really, really like her.

Matt,

[Himster]

Nice guys often appear to be boring, it's occasionally neccessary to pretend to be nasty.

[Kjertesvein]

This is my opinion. It's nothing factual about it, just my "say so".

Hmmm... I hear the word honour by so extremely many vile and wretched organisations these days: The government is honourable, the mafia is honourable, the police is honourable, the military is honourable, the country is honourable, the parents are honourable, etc. It's like the word it's-self is taken for granted by any authority of a fixed hierarchy of violence. Ergo, I have a clear problem about the word virtue or honour by it's common usage.

But, as the rightful intention of virtue and honour, I can clearly see that I have not been particularly honourable toward any close relative or friend in the last days. I highly doubt you can put your hand on your chest and claim otherwise about yourself... That you are a truly noble person by great personal effort or sacrifice. Maybe I'm expecting to much, but if we take one truly virtues act a day, do you really do it? By this logical, how many virtues days a year do you have, percentage-wise?

Honor and virtue is something special for me by the very nature of virtue. It needs to be learnt. Shaped to the person using it. His physical abilities, short comings and things like knowledge. I don't think we can simply say "I'm an honourable person today because I told the truth of telling 2+2=4 to a child or helped an old lady across the street", because everyone can thus be honourable without effort or sacrifice. If everyone can be honourable without effort or sacrifice, then I don't feel the word honour describe anything particularly honourable by it's very nature.

I think the word honour or virtue can describe quite different methods of action: One would be the smaller long term and day to day virtues. The virtue from being conscious about everyday actions, to be aware and awake of every action around you (a child which suffers from bad parenting, a detrimental family member toward a cousin of yours, a destructive friend in some ones other life that you may be able to talk to, etc,). Then there is the virtues from specific quests we hold as goals, maybe it's to have helped a brother who's a long term drug addict.

It doesn't stop for me at this point either. A person might not want to be helped by my actions. Would it then be honourable for me to aid, regardless of their mental rational process skill. If the person says he doesn't want help (but clearly is in need of help)? Here, I have to make the other person aware of their wound. Make them discover their lacking. Their scar which is holding them back. Their open rotting flesh which need aid and healing. I need them to reach the conclusion of admitting it, then ask me of my opinion, and only then may I aid their cause with my suggestion, abilities and resources.

Nice guys often appear to be boring, it's occasionally neccessary to pretend to be nasty.

I don't agree with that basic theory. Nice guys appear to be boring because they are nice to others to compensate for the insecurity they see in their own image and abilities. If they are nice and helpful to what others lack, then they can avoid focusing or debating their own corruption of their personality. The cause for this corruption withing the Nice guys have, is most likely linked to a detrimental and destructive person who still haunt their life as adult, even if this is most likely rooted in their family history.

Only a tiny minority of these "nice" guys can truly realise this fact, face it's darkest cause, deal with it and become a truly confident ubermench. To shine like a beacon of both the virtue of old and confidence of the new un-corrupt self. Ergo, you get exactly what you want. Atleast... that's my empirical theory experience about being the "nice guy".

~Wille

[Aragorn]

I don't agree with that basic theory. Nice guys appear to be boring because they are nice to others to compensate for the insecurity they see in their own image and abilities. If they are nice and helpful to what others lack, then they can avoid focusing or debating their own corruption of their personality. The cause for this corruption withing the Nice guys have, is most likely linked to a detrimental and destructive person who still haunt their life as adult, even if this is most likely rooted in their family history.

Only a tiny minority of these "nice" guys can truly realise this fact, face it's darkest cause, deal with it and become a truly confident ubermench. To shine like a beacon of both the virtue of old and confidence of the new un-corrupt self. Ergo, you get exactly what you want. Atleast... that's my empirical theory experience about being the "nice guy".

~Wille

I am one of those nice guys. You have me word for word in your description. Do things everyday to better myself as a person and I dont honestly feel that by being nice to people I am somehow earning karma points. Not to say that I shouldnt be nice to people. But when I speak to a women about relationships or even to a man I always reinforce my point about commitment and loyalty. I feel this way because I have been ed over by someone not being loyal. How do you become more complete as a person if you cant be nice because thats a bad thing. Its all gone totally pete tong if you ask me. Courtship has become damn near impossible for men in this century. In the past a man had to do much less to win a owmens affections. These days he has a to be everything that the media is telling the women he should be. And I just cant conform to those requirements anymore. Hence this whole threat. And a string of threads I have posted today throughout this forum.

How do I become me again? Dented confidence to the point at which I cant even trust my morals. Which until recently when my dog died were the only consistent thing in my life. If honor is to be condemned and the practice of noble deeds then were all screwed. Our entire lives we have been told to be honorable and well mannerd and NICE. Now honor is a bad thing because it restricts our chances of meeting women. I know Im fairly right wing about this but I do sometimes feel I should have been born a few hundred years ago. Stupid thing is. Im a confident guy, quite good looking if i may say so, yet still this pisses me off because I feel im selling out to the "normal" way of doing things (being a c u n t to women to get them to like you). Dont you feel betrayed by society? I do.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Well that's where our opinions differ, because I don't think what I want is the most important thing in the world. I can get by just fine with the minimum, but I realise others can't. I don't mind helping friends and family if it means I won't get what I particularly want.

No, you do believe what you want is the most important thing in the world, you just won't admit it. Every human believes this, even if they don't realise that they do. You're being incredibly hypocritical, denying you believe something because of societal pressures. It's not selfish to have a will to power and don't let society's crazy opinions about selfishness undermine yours. It's only natural.

We all have Nietzschean will to power, a will to make what we want to happen happen. If you try to reject it you're only ruining your life.

There's only one person I care about in the world and that's the girlfriend I mentioned earlier, not myself. Am I really selfish?

@irelandeb
You're principled because you are self-serving? An interesting take on it.

Yes, serving of my wants. Yet I care about others deeply, and one of my wants are their well being.

Your lack of morals is the reason modern society is such a time to live in.

No. Societal brainwashing with silly "morality" that undermines the will to power is the reason modern society is such a time to live in. If everyone shared my Nietzschean outlook the world would be a far better place.

If she would cheat on him then their relationship obviously wasn't good enough. Either she wasn't good enough for him or vice versa.

I don't agree with that basic theory. Nice guys appear to be boring because they are nice to others to compensate for the insecurity they see in their own image and abilities. If they are nice and helpful to what others lack, then they can avoid focusing or debating their own corruption of their personality. The cause for this corruption withing the Nice guys have, is most likely linked to a detrimental and destructive person who still haunt their life as adult, even if this is most likely rooted in their family history.

Only a tiny minority of these "nice" guys can truly realise this fact, face it's darkest cause, deal with it and become a truly confident ubermench. To shine like a beacon of both the virtue of old and confidence of the new un-corrupt self. Ergo, you get exactly what you want. Atleast... that's my empirical theory experience about being the "nice guy".

~Wille

I agree entirely, I meet the description you just posted. It's my experience.

[Aragorn]

Sounds reasonable. But Id find it hard to be nasty. Dont wanna lose her afterall

[removeduser_4536284751384]

I know this sounds like some communist ranting on about the most stupid youve ever heard. For me atleast Id like to know why nice guys always come last. Why dont women respect a good hard working man for what he is. I swear sometimes I was born in the wrong century.

They do. Ubermenschen finish first.

My latest honorable deed:

Was to refuse a woman relations because she was already engaged in a relationship with another man, even though I really, really like her.

Matt,

Well then you're a fool and a loser.

I have a girlfriend who I don't like and am messing around with someone' girlfriend who I do like. I'm trying to pursaude her to leave him for me.

You have the power. Make her leave him for you. Go for it.

[ccllnply]

Well then you're a fool and a loser.

I have a girlfriend who I don't like and am messing around with someone' girlfriend who I do like. I'm trying to pursaude her to leave him for me.

You have the power. Make her leave him for you. Go for it.

That is the absolute worst attitude you can take to life. The world is your oyster, do with it what you want.

If he took my current girlfriend I wouldn't care, because it isn't a relationship that will last. Someone I wanted to marry would never cheat on me. If she did, she obviously wasn't for me.

I love this guy

[Katsumoto]

Well then you're a fool and a loser.

I have a girlfriend who I don't like and am messing around with someone' girlfriend who I do like. I'm trying to pursaude her to leave him for me.

You have the power. Make her leave him for you. Go for it.

Really, don't listen to this guy. This guy here is calling you a fool and a loser, even though he's 'messing around' while in a relationship instead of having the balls to end his current relationship and get with this new girl.

There is nothing wrong with having principles and sticking to them. You can be successful and have money and get with plenty of women without sacrificing what you believe in.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

There is nothing wrong with having principles and sticking to them. You can be successful and have money and get with plenty of women without sacrificing what you believe in.

I am incredibly principled, as I displayed in my replies in this thread, and I will never sacrifice what I believe in for anything.

What makes you think I am not sticking to my principles? If your principles involve going with the flow and not doing everything you possibly can to get what you want, then yours aren't very good principles...

I intend to be successful and get plenty of money without sacrificing what I believe in. I don't want plenty of women, I want this one woman.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Well then you're a fool and a loser.

I have a girlfriend who I don't like and am messing around with someone' girlfriend who I do like. I'm trying to pursaude her to leave him for me.

You have the power. Make her leave him for you. Go for it.

Your lack of morals is the reason modern society is such a time to live in.

[Aragorn]

irelandeb. Things must run their course. I will not interfere. How would you like it if some guy took away your girlfriend? Sneaking around in the shadows is a stupid thing to do. Real men dont do the things you speak of.

Plus if she cheated on him... whats to stop her cheating on you. Relationships must be forged not forced

[removeduser_4536284751384]

irelandeb. Things must run their course. I will not interfere.

That is the absolute worst attitude you can take to life. The world is your oyster, do with it what you want.

How would you like it if some guy took away your girlfriend?

If he took my current girlfriend I wouldn't care, because it isn't a relationship that will last. Someone I wanted to marry would never cheat on me. If she did, she obviously wasn't for me.

Sneaking around in the shadows is a stupid thing to do. Real men dont do the things you speak of.

Real men do whatever it takes to be what they want to be. Only the weak let things "run their course", a real man builds the course.

Plus if she cheated on him... whats to stop her cheating on you.

When I said "messing around" I didn't mean we've actually cheated, we haven't even made out. We spend a lot of time together though, there've been a few awkward moments when we both thought of stuff like that, and she's told me she loves me, but she's procrastinating leaving him, I her and we both have issues with cheating.

And people cheat because they aren't getting something in their current relationship, or want something a relationship can't give them, not just because they are people who biologically must cheat all the time.

Relationships must be forged not forced

This is a relationship we've been forging since we were 12. We've known each other a lot longer than we've known our respective partners.

Our current relationships are forced.

[Simon Cashmere]

irelandeb. Things must run their course. I will not interfere. How would you like it if some guy took away your girlfriend? Sneaking around in the shadows is a stupid thing to do. Real men dont do the things you speak of.

Plus if she cheated on him... whats to stop her cheating on you. Relationships must be forged not forced

For lots and lots of reasons, its not worth getting involved with someone who is engaged or married.

I regard myself as reasonably honourable, keeping my word. You dont need a written contract with me, if I make a deal with you on the telephone, I'll keep it no matter what. But honourable people these days are very very rare, especially in business. People are as slippery as greased frogs, and you have to nail them to the wall to ever pay their bills, or keep their agreements.

I think that the new ethics is anti-ethics, that is it is believe that honour and telling the truth are just foolish concepts that weak people with 'no game' believe in. I meet so many liars, who will say whatever they need to, to get through that moment - without any remorse at all for their deception.

I guess we value honourable behaviour because it is so rare - and by god it's very rare these days.

Although I disagree with the beliefs of religious people, occassionally you will find a religious person who is very honourable. Im not talking about the major religions, but people like Mormons - once you get past the fact that you dont want to follow them into Mormonism, they are some of the most decent and honourable people I've ever met or dealt with. Even if their religion is bunkum.

[Genius of the Restoration]

For me atleast Id like to know why nice guys always come last. Why dont women respect a good hard working man for what he is. I swear sometimes I was born in the wrong century.

Some women do, others don't. Nice guys don't always finish last, that's retarded.

Was to refuse a woman relations because she was already engaged in a relationship with another man, even though I really, really like her.

Fair enough. Did you tell her that?

This should probably be in PH&A by the way it's progressing.

[Aragorn]

irelandeb: I like what your saying but I cant make it work for me. I met this girl on 2 nights ago. I dont have any way of seeing her. You know what I mean. Were at the same Uni yes. We have a mutual friend or two yes. But i dont want to wait for some social function that might not happen til I can see her. I want to see her now. What would you say my friend?

I do like what your saying. But its much easier to hide behind whats right and just.


Genius otr: Whats PH&A?

Matt,

[removeduser_4536284751384]

irelandeb: I like what your saying but I cant make it work for me. I met this girl on 2 nights ago. I dont have any way of seeing her. You know what I mean. Were at the same Uni yes. We have a mutual friend or two yes. But i dont want to wait for some social function that might not happen til I can see her. I want to see her now. What would you say my friend?

You should make contact and tell her ASAP. I'm obviously not familiar with your relationship so I can't really tell you how you should go about that, but you definitely have to do it. If you want to be with someone, why would you let anything stand in the way of being with them, if they want it too?

Just for some confirmation here: what's your history with her, and how much do you like her?

I do like what your saying. But its much easier to hide behind whats right and just.

what's right and just is to "be true to yourself" and do whatever it is you want to do. Don't let any silly rules interfere with your life. On your deathbed, do you really want to look back on this and realise how much you've wasted your life obeying petty social norms?

[Genius of the Restoration]

Genius otr: Whats PH&A?

Personal Help and Advice where you'll find various threads with plenty of relationship advice of sometimes dubious worth

[Aragorn]

Well i doubt its going to end up that serious. Ok ill tell you what happened. Friday night went out for a mates birthday to a club. Met a friend and then met Danielle through her. got on really well. bought her a few drinks and she gave me a kiss on the cheek. I was outside the club when she left with her friend. Her friend was upset. And well anyway shes been seeing this guy for maybe 3 weeks? I knew about him through my friend who said she was seeing someone. I asked her out on a date. She said she would come over mine on monday at 7:00. She bailed today mid afternoon. Saying that she would feel really aweful about meeting me because of him but said that I was a great catch. I grabbed her arm at the bar and she held my hand onto the dance floor and we danced for a bit. She seemed to like that I dunno.

I text her back saying. "ok then if your sure. WOuldnt have you cheat on someone you really like. Glad u seem to think so, u are too xxx"

I do like her alot. Shes one of those girls that you cant quite believe your talking to because theyre so amazingly hot. And she seemed to understand my slighty disjointed sense of humout lol.

that is literally everything so far. But what next?

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Well i doubt its going to end up that serious. Ok ill tell you what happened. Friday night went out for a mates birthday to a club. Met a friend and then met Danielle through her. got on really well. bought her a few drinks and she gave me a kiss on the cheek. I was outside the club when she left with her friend. Her friend was upset. And well anyway shes been seeing this guy for maybe 3 weeks? I knew about him through my friend who said she was seeing someone. I asked her out on a date. She said she would come over mine on monday at 7:00. She bailed today mid afternoon. Saying that she would feel really aweful about meeting me because of him but said that I was a great catch. I grabbed her arm at the bar and she held my hand onto the dance floor and we danced for a bit. She seemed to like that I dunno.

I text her back saying. "ok then if your sure. WOuldnt have you cheat on someone you really like. Glad u seem to think so, u are too xxx"

I do like her alot. Shes one of those girls that you cant quite believe your talking to because theyre so amazingly hot. And she seemed to understand my slighty disjointed sense of humout lol.

that is literally everything so far. But what next?

wow what a coincidence the girl I was talking about is also named Danielle and is a definite 10/10.

Well if you met a club that's not really something I would follow up but if you want to fine. I am only doing what I'm doing because we're going to be in a serious relationship.