SS 6.4 Manual and other questions?

[Slyguy3129]

Hey guys I've finally come back to MTW2 after years of being AWOL. The last I recall SS was somewhere in the 2s maybe 3s.

Anyways I've been playing around with it a few days and I have some questions that have been bugging me.

1: For whatever reason it seems whenever I take a province I automatically go into debt by atleast 6000 gold.
A: Why is this? I understand there is a supply thing now, cool, so how do I keep from it being so blasted economy breaking? I went from besieging till they sallied and attacked me to attacking, building ladders and rams and attacking on the second turn, and I still am broke the immediate following turn. It wouldn't be so bad if I had a chance to rebuild but it takes a good 5 turns to get back into the black before I can start retraining troops and covering my losses with fresh one.
B: Does the AI incur the same sort of penalty? I'm hoping this isn't just some way to handicap the player, it certainly wasn't like this the last time I played.
C: What is an effective way to manage this? I moved the supply train to my number one general and as I said shortening the siege did not seem to help *much*.

2: Is there any sort of manual that details all the things and how they function? I have seen the guides but I don't want to know how to game the system, I want to use it properly.

3: I've noticed a new menu that pops up when you click the shield in the GUI, something about Nobles and the economy? Again is there a manual that details what all this means and how to decipher this new batch of information?

In closing I have to express my sheer shock in the total difference in game play! You guys have literally made this a completely new game. The CAI and BAI seems to have quite of bit of intelligence or maybe I'm just remembering ETW *Shudder*. Even more surprised was I when I popped into the forums and found that the latest update had been released in January of this year! Great work on the mod guys, as I said you have completely changed the game for the better IMHO. Now if I could rap my brain around these awesome new features I believe I could muster I fighting chance against the AI! As of now the 4 times I've played as Spain I get my tail handed to me because I am broke 90% of the time from taking one settlement, I dare not ever try taking a Moor's settlement for fear of a financial meltdown.

Playing VH/VH of course, I seem to remember that was the setting that was recommenced, is that still the case? I am also using the AI that says it is enjoyed by most users, along with the newest recruit mod thing. 4 I think? Any help for a guy itching to get back into a decent Total War game?

[Ferdiad]

Your using BGR, thats for experts.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106060

[Andytheplatypus]

What version of SS are you playing?

Do you have BGR selected?

[Slyguy3129]

*Face Palm* I think I found a manual describing some of the answers I had.

But one still remains and now I am afraid I know the answer. Is the AI affected by this? I'm thinking a no, this is just a way to handicap the player.

[Andytheplatypus]

I have no idea what you are asking.

[Slyguy3129]

Yes I am Playing with BGR activated, and I am supposing this is just a player handicap? In other words the AI does not follow these rules. It would seem very difficult to script the AI to use this without it breaking the AI entirely.

For the rest of my question I found the BGR instruction thread along with the link provided! Thanks, hopefully I will come to grasp it and play the game appropriately!

[Andytheplatypus]

The AI has to follow the rules also, I think.

[Slyguy3129]

Really? In that case that is remarkable AI work from whom ever has done it! The game looks like it is world better in the AI department and I will attempt to get a grasp on this new economy and the new flow of hidden money.

Lol at one time I purchased one building and the next turn I was out 7k when it was .8k. I was like holy corruption Batman we have an issue!

Guess it will just take time to master it. Needed a reason to get back into MTW2 anyways.

[popovic]

The AI has to follow the rules also, I think.

Of course it does not.
Byg is working on a version in which the AI will be SOMEWHAT effected by the effects of his mod.

[Ferdiad]

Of course it does not.
Byg is working on a version in which the AI will be SOMEWHAT effected by the effects of his mod.

And that is supply.

[guyverlance]

The AI has to follow the rules also, I think.

THE AI IS NOT AFFECTED BY BGR. THIS SUB-MOD IS MADE FOR SS EXPERTS (IM NOT ONE OF THEM THOUGH ) it basically makes it hard for the player to steamroll AI factions. that's the whole concept of it

for a more detailed read, go to http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106060

[Slyguy3129]

Ah that's what I thought, found it impossible that the AI was able to field some of the armies it did and still hold to BGR rules.

Meh, if thats the case I'll just uninstall that part of the mod, and wait till he can apply it to the AI. Not a fan of things that don't apply to the AI.

[Ferdiad]

Ah that's what I thought, found it impossible that the AI was able to field some of the armies it did and still hold to BGR rules.

Meh, if thats the case I'll just uninstall that part of the mod, and wait till he can apply it to the AI. Not a fan of things that don't apply to the AI.

You'll be waiting forever then, the AI will always not follow the rules and the rules it does follow are insignificant.

[popovic]

Ah that's what I thought, found it impossible that the AI was able to field some of the armies it did and still hold to BGR rules.

Meh, if thats the case I'll just uninstall that part of the mod, and wait till he can apply it to the AI. Not a fan of things that don't apply to the AI.

I understand what you mean mate, but as your sig says, there is hardly any Intelligence in the CA games AI.

BGR brings a fresh challenge, and that is something that should be welcomed imo.

Again, I too would prefer if the rules were the same for "everyone". But the AI is so damn dumb that if the BGR rules applied to it, it would fail very, very hardcore. I believe.

[Byg]

Ah that's what I thought, found it impossible that the AI was able to field some of the armies it did and still hold to BGR rules.

Meh, if thats the case I'll just uninstall that part of the mod, and wait till he can apply it to the AI. Not a fan of things that don't apply to the AI.

you had better uninstall Total War then as there are tons of beneficial features that don't apply to the ai, or rather benefits that are player only.

Why do you think it is impossible to lose. It's not just down to AI intelligence, of which there is actually none. AI does not even have a memory. If the AI answered its door each day and someone punched it in the face it would continue to open the door each day, it would just be more angry with you without knowing why. If the AI saw you running round its garden with an axe it would prepare to attack you, but if later on it could not see you it would forget you were there at all.

My feeling is that originally the "AI" was powerful enough to take down a player mostly by brute force, but then the writers (probably correctly) decided that most players would not actually like to lose a campaign but rather explore through it, inevitably conquering, imagining themselves as strategic and tactical geniuses. From there it was either an inability to apply most of the features that allow a human player to win easily to the "AI" or an intended neglect to keep the "AI" down. You play a few factions then buy the next game. That's just good business.

I'm not one of the players that enjoy winning artificially.

The "AI" offers the illusion of intelligence and BGR offers the illusion of other medieval factors that are otherwise missing from the game and tries to offer the player a challenge through their application.

[Ferdiad]

you had better uninstall Total War then as there are tons of beneficial features that don't apply to the ai, or rather benefits that are player only.

Why do you think it is impossible to lose. It's not just down to AI intelligence, of which there is actually none. AI does not even have a memory. If the AI answered its door each day and someone punched it in the face it would continue to open the door each day, it would just be more angry with you without knowing why. If the AI saw you running round its garden with an axe it would prepare to attack you, but if later on it could not see you it would forget you were there at all.

My feeling is that originally the "AI" was powerful enough to take down a player mostly by brute force, but then the writers (probably correctly) decided that most players would not actually like to lose a campaign but rather explore through it, inevitably conquering, imagining themselves as strategic and tactical geniuses. From there it was either an inability to apply most of the features that allow a human player to win easily to the "AI" or an intended neglect to keep the "AI" down. You play a few factions then buy the next game. That's just good business.

I'm not one of the players that enjoy winning artificially.

The "AI" offers the illusion of intelligence and BGR offers the illusion of other medieval factors that are otherwise missing from the game and tries to offer the player a challenge through their application.

And what a seamless Illusion it is.

[Andytheplatypus]

Its pretty tough but you should be able to get it once you play for a little while.

[guyverlance]

oh it will

[Ferdiad]

oh it will

Fail?If thats what you meant thaen I disagree with you.The AI can handle basic supply in mods in RTW why not in M2 with its better AI.