TW gameplay: swords vs. guns, hordes vs. square formations

[Gauloisier de la Gauloiserie]

Bonjour à tous

I have the feeling that the TW serie's battlemap system isnt adapted to Medieval warfare.
As much as it feels real and realistic to play the romans in RTW, the french or prussians in ETW or NTW, having troops forming square formations as the japanese samurais or the medieval knights isnt "right".

There should be some randomless in the way they reform groups, or if they insist in forming a "front line" why such a clean block?!

Ten years ago when I first played STW I was impressed by the game, I loved it, but the square formations somehow annoyed me. I accepted it, enjoyed the game for hundreds of hours, even if something wasnt right. Then came MTW. It was worse in my opinion: the square formations looked even more "stupid" with the medieval armies. But I accepted it, though for this very reason wasnt able to appreciate the game as much as I liked STW...

RTW was released and for once I saw the TW engine shining: it was so well adapted to roman cohorts movements! Clumsy sometimes, but so much real!
Then they released M2TW... and as much as I loved the graphics and the overall detail of the units, I *hated* once more the square formation my units wanted to adopt all the time.
For me, the TW engine started to shine again with ETW and NTW. It felt right, once more.

So all in all, I think that I've understood why I dont like S2TW as much as it may deserve according to its graphics: it doesnt feel right. I hate seeing the troops regaining formations all the time after the smallest fight.

The system of one unit of [insert unit type here] forming an almost perfect square of x men depth on y men length is perfect for roman legions, imperial french grande armée ...
But for samurais armies who should be a mix of troops and weapons (for most of them), or barbarian armies, or medieval formations with a mix of troops and above all a mobile squad and not a square, the TW engine looks so unrealistic that it spoils my fun.

That being said, TW games like M2TW or S2TW are great, beautiful, well done. But they give you a way too "regimental" views of these armies, which can be ok for most of us, but, at least for me isnt satisfying.

All these views are personal. I do not pretend "converting you". Just giving my humble opinion here, as a player and a fan of the serie.

Waiting for Rome2TW now

[Erwin Rommel]

are you aware of any battle formations of the Sengoku Jidai or do you somehow lumped it as masses upon masses of concripts forming an indistinct blob milling around with no formation.

[Gauloisier de la Gauloiserie]

Apart for maybe ashigaru "units" there were no homogeneous "units" of naginata, samurai katana (sorry if I laugh here)...
And having a group forming a line, or trying to form a square doesnt mean they have to walk and behave like clone robots on the battlefield.
Even on the nice picture you posted you can clearly see different uniforms, weapons, and we're here very far away from a line infantry unit à la Grande Armée where each soldier wears the same uniform, fires with the same rifle and *have to* form a perfect square. Maybe it can be applied to a line of ashigaru, maybe... but it doesnt -by no means- apply to samurais, thus to 90% of the units of S2TW.
Same words for M2TW knights.

[Erwin Rommel]

Apart for maybe ashigaru "units" there were no homogeneous "units" of naginata, samurai katana (sorry if I laugh here)...

Sure but thats the inherent limitations of the engine, otherwise you could try Takeda 3, units are just ashigaru with a detachment of yumi on its side, with a couple of samurai and a mounted officer samurai thats just one unit. Then again, the controls are clunky as hell and battlefields are smaller than a city of RTW.

If TWS2 followed the historical route, it will spoil the fun, most are attracted not by the era but by samurai itself. It would be a disappointment to see 'em just reduced to officers and bodyguard units while the rest are ashigaru....oh ashigaru...oh another ashigaru...ashigaru...Ohhh, some sohei just joined.

Not waiting for Rome 2, waiting for a China one, it would be nice for CA to keep the change of setting to another game.