Canada Going to the Polls... Sitting Party Claims Coalition Gov. Undemocratic

[DisgruntledGoat]

So, for those that are unfamiliar with Canadian politics of late. Two years ago the conservative government was able to put together a weak minority government. Shortly after that election the opposition parties signed an agreement to form a coalition government and intended to replace the conservatives. This sparked a debate in the country which ended up resulting in the conservative Prime Minister proroguing parliament to avoid losing his hold on power. Part of the reasons that the coalition didn't quite work that time was that the conservatives were able to have several days of confirmation and that the Governor General had already named the Con leader the PM. The coalition was a bit late to the party. So I could accept, somewhat, that the attempt failed.

Well, now another election is on the way and polls again show that the conservatives are unlikely to gain a majority, but neither is any party. The cons fearing they will lose power have decided they will make the up coming election about one thing and one thing only.

That a coalition government is undemocratic.

Now this insults me, and I feel it should insult anyone that has a parliamentary system of government. The conservatives and their supporters claim that the party with the most seats should form the government no matter what. And that it is undemocratic to deny the people of Canada of a government formed from the party with the most seats in the house. Why does this insult me, because it assumes I'm an idiot. That I don't understand how my government is formed and that political parties are more important than the seats/ridings. Each seat in the house represents a group of people, would not a coalition of the majority of seats represent the people the most rather than a government made up of only 35% of those seats?

So, what do other people think. In a parliamentary system, is it undemocratic? Or is it the VERY DEFINITION of democracy. Should Canadians be insulted by this affront on their intelligence?

[Exarch]

so long as harper gets kicked out, that's all that matters

[DisgruntledGoat]

so long as harper gets kicked out, that's all that matters

That's besides the point. I'm actually AFRAID that people will buy into this "coalition is undemocratic" bull he is trying to pull. People in general are stupid. If they hear the same thing over and over again on TV eventually they believe. Heck, the polls during the last attempt at a coalition had something like 70% against it.

[Menelik_I]

Of course the Conservatives are right !

I mean you don't really think that the dully elected Members of Parliament should represent the views of their constituents and vote for a government solely based on this democratic mandate instead of being Parties cheerleaders ... wait ?!? I described reality

Yes the dudes are insulting your intelligence.

I lost all hope in Democratic assemblies, the ones of the British tradition do at least provide for good comical relief ... but a hung parliament is actually good because it breaks the partisanship stupid logic.

[Heathen Hammer]

so long as harper gets kicked out, that's all that matters

This.

[Dalarna3]

so long as harper gets kicked out, that's all that matters

And how would that change anything really?

[MAXlMUS]

yeah, i love how the conservatives accuse the other parties of being undemocratic...it's not like they didn't do use the same strategies when they were in the opposition
what i find undemocratic was the decision by harper to purchase the handful of crappy f-35's at an astronomical price without any competions being held (which is what all other countries do) or even other aircraft like the eurofighter or super hornet being considered, and then lying/underestimating the real price by half (something like 15 billion instead of 30 billion) payed

i usually vote for the bloc but this time i might vote liberals even though i hate their leader

[DisgruntledGoat]

yeah, i love how the conservatives accuse the other parties of being undemocratic...it's not like they didn't do use the same strategies when they were in the opposition
what i find undemocratic was the decision by harper to purchase the handful of crappy f-35's at an astronomical price without any competions being held (which is what all other countries do) or even other aircraft like the eurofighter or super hornet being considered, and then lying/underestimating the real price by half (something like 15 billion instead of 30 billion) payed

i usually vote for the bloc but this time i might vote liberals even though i hate their leader

Oh god, please don't vote for the bloc.

[priam11]

i might vote liberals even though i hate their leader

Nobody and I mean nobody..is more slimier than Ignatieff.

[The.Delegate]

Haha yes it is insulting DG.

I just hope that Harper doesn't get a majority, because the minority parliament is the only thing keeping him in check. He a manipulator and controller and he is also very bad news. My guess is another Tory minority purely because all of the federal leaders and parties are underwhelming, either in their leaders or policies or both.

Michael Ignatieff is a slimeball. I will never vote for him; he lived outside of Canada for 30 years and was more of an American than not. Check this video out, I couldn't believe it when I heard that. YouTube - Michael Ignatieff Declares Allegiance to USA "Republic , Constitution and its way of life" . I don't think he actually swears allegiance, but nonetheless he's practically doing it. I've never liked Ignatieff ever since he appeared suddenly and expected to become Prime Minister, like he could have his way.

Layton has done OK in his time as NDP leader, but he's aging, has health problems, and I'm thinking it's time for him to go. It's not like the NDP ever can do much anyways.

I voted for Denise Savoie [NDP] in my Victoria riding last time because she has done good work with getting bike lanes and trails all over this city. And now we have Elizabeth May running in Saanich North and Gulf Islands just north of Victoria, so I'm hoping she wins there.

I'm also really glad that the Harper gov't was found to be in contempt of parliament, hopefully that will also act as a check on the power the Prime Minister's Office wields.

Honestly, I'm on the fence this time, I'll have to go to some town hall meetings and see what the candidates in my riding have to offer this time.

Oh god, please don't vote for the bloc.

This, please. The last thing we need is to give the Bloc a chance to rip apart the country again.

Nobody and I mean nobody..is more slimier than Ignatieff.

It's not like they actually have a chance of winning, it would be more of a strategic vote to deny the tories.

[priam11]

It's not like they actually have a chance of winning, it would be more of a strategic vote to deny the tories.

And that is how Bob Rae became premier of Ontario....

[Armenum]

Just a poor excuse and a bad loser's attitude by the conservatives. They want "undemocratic" - they should look at some countries where people are suffering and even dying as a result of oppressive regimes.

[ShADoW]

Ignatieff or Harper? Its like asking which crap smells better

[Stavroforos]

I know if I were Canadian, I'd be even more delighter with the fall of the Harper regime.

And if I were Canadian, I'd vote NDP or Bloc.

[Mr. Shaboobies]

You can only vote bloc if you live in Quebec, and I'm pretty sure it's impossible for them to get majority anyways so they'll never be able to secede. I just turned 18 this past year so this new election will be the first time for me. Although where I live, everyone has and always will vote conservative - except the riding I live in lol. The liberal bastion in the conservative west, my god Ralph has been our MP forever, but he is great, even if he is a Liberal. Its too bad that Harper has been so shady this past term, but who else can you vote for? Not the liberals, definitely not NDP, Green has no chance, and Bloc, well I just might vote for them if they happen to extend out west just so we can rid of their whining. At least they stand for something consistently and somewhat admiringly. To be honest, I think we need some change at the top, because none of the leaders are in anyway appealing.

About a coalition being undemocratic - WTF??????? The conservative party itself is sort of a coalition of the PC and Reform. In no way is a coalition undemocratic, and if people actually start to believe them, well I think all hope is lost. Given the history of coalitions in Canada (none) we don't even really know how they would work, but that doesn't mean we can't try. It isn't like anyone will be forming a majority anytime soon, might as well do some experimenting.

[Adar]

I got some economical interest in Canada so I got one question:

1) Is it likely that a liberal government would be more negative towards Shale gas drilling in Quebec (more info)?

In Sweden we have a long tradition of both minority and coalition governments. At the moment we even got a coalition minority government since we have two blocks (left and right) and one independent party (conservative, anti immigration and anti privatization).

But the Conservatives claiming coalition governments to be undemocratic while actively working to withhold information from the parliament looks like the most pathetic play in a long time.

I know of the JSF acquirement but do they also have other skeletons in their closet?

The JSF issues for those interested:

Source
The numbers game

When the Harper cabinet approved the purchase of 65 F-35 fighter jets last year, National Defence said the project would cost $15.92-billion. The number has since risen to $17.6-billion, breaking down as:

$7.3-billion - initial acquisition and logistics costs

$10.3-billion - “sustainment services” for 20 years and upgrades

The government's acquisition numbers come from the Joint Strike Fighter program, led by Lockheed-Martin in the United States in partnership with other allied countries, and an estimate of traditional maintenance costs for fighter jets.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer is evaluating the total project at $29.3-billion, predicting:

$11.4-billion - acquisition cost

$17.9-billion - sustainment costs over 30 years, including $3.9-billion in upgrades (or double National Defence's estimate)

The PBO analyzed historical costs of complicated aircraft and military procurements, which are frequently over budget and require large upgrades over time. In addition, it pointed to ongoing uncertainty in the United States over the state of the development program.

So a 56 % in increased acquisition costs and 16 % increase in sustainment costs. Still better than the Norwegians .

[Sir Pignans]

Does Canada use a FPTP system or a PR system?

[DisgruntledGoat]

Our ridings are decided via First past the post.

[Blaze86420]

Lol, conservatives are the same no matter what country they're from. I can't wait till I turn 18.

[Sir Pignans]

In which case it can be seen as undemocratic, for example, voters in Britain are going absolutley crazy that they voted for Lib dems who joined a conservative coalition, and then preceeded to drop most of there policies. I personally don't view it as undemocratic, I just hate coalitions, but a strong case can be made for it being undemocratic, what with all the policy swapping that happens in a coalition, whats left is sometimes something no-one would have voted for.