Uesugi = torture

[M2TWRocks]

I keep trying to get a campaign started with this faction, but it always seems to fall apart. You start out at war and with one province. You can't go to war with Takeda or Hojo, because they'll annihilate you. Trying to take Santo island requires quite a few turns of getting a ship and troops enough to take the town. Plus, there's always the lingering possibility of war with about 5 different factions. Since you can't attack Takeda, you're forced to advance East into the very spread out regions around Date.

I love the appeal and colors of this faction, but can't seem to get them to work. I've done well with Oda and Tokugawa, both of which are supposed to be hard. And I've had campaigns go well with Mori and Hojo.

Frustrating to say the least.

[Ma'ahes]

Think of it this way: taking the island means you can afford to lose that first province. Now you're a roving army that can strike anywhere from your island fortress!

[sillyfrenchman]

Think of it this way: taking the island means you can afford to lose that first province. Now you're a roving army that can strike anywhere from your island fortress!

This makes the most sense to me. If what most people say is true, that naval invasions are unlikely, it seems to me like the first move should be against Sado. Then just wait for whatever power that takes your home province to predictably overextend in another war and take unguarded castles from the sea.

That's one thing you can count on besides the sun rising in the morning: overaggressive AI unable to preserve power balances.

[Raimeken]

I keep trying to get a campaign started with this faction, but it always seems to fall apart. You start out at war and with one province. You can't go to war with Takeda or Hojo, because they'll annihilate you. Trying to take Santo island requires quite a few turns of getting a ship and troops enough to take the town. Plus, there's always the lingering possibility of war with about 5 different factions. Since you can't attack Takeda, you're forced to advance East into the very spread out regions around Date.

I love the appeal and colors of this faction, but can't seem to get them to work. I've done well with Oda and Tokugawa, both of which are supposed to be hard. And I've had campaigns go well with Mori and Hojo.

Frustrating to say the least.

Ally with the Takeda and Hojo, once one of them betrays the other (they will betray each other before they betray you), jump in and seize as much land you can, once thats done, you can either worry about the Date or keep an extended peace until the other ally decides to betray you. Do not let your allies get too powerful (do not let them blitzkrieg all of the enemy territories, make sure you get a bunch). Getting Sado island should be a second priority after getting Fukushima (I'm really sad whenever I take it)

[Death_Sheep]

Ignore Sado, and its delicious gold mine.

At least until you've counquered the two provinces to your left. That is to say, south of Echigo.

The increased income from those two provinces, and the rice they generate will help you out in the long run.

Ally yourself with the Asahina. Get a wife from them. This will help cement your alliance, and give you a few heirs in the comming years. From there, your next expansion should be towards Hida and its prime forrest.

From there, you should have enough to build a small fleet, and take Sado. Be warned though, its usually a LOT of yari asihgaru. By this time though, you should have gotten the Free Warrior Monk unit. Bring this with you, and use the warcry ability to its utmost.

From that point on, you should have a good foothold. I also suggest taking a trade fleet to the north until you hit the Iron deposits.

If you're lucky, you should be able to take Northern Shinano, and move east R.E. down, towards Musashi.

Hope this helps mate, and welcome to the Uesugi.

[♔GrinningManiac♔]

I sent my initial army (having defeated the rebels) to outside the town of your vassal. Takeda WILL eventually attack you, and, in my game at least, it seems that just by anticipating this attack it delays it, allowing you to deal with the Jinbo or whatever they're called.

Taking that Jinbo province allowed me, when the Takeda DOW'd me and my protectrate, to move in behind them and take Hida (or whatever it's called). Their two massive armies couldn't deal with seiging my full-stack vassal WHILST also fighting off a flanking mavouvere from my reinforcments.

Their armies destroyed, I could move my Daimyo's army (which took Hida), my vassal-protecting army (the Daimyo's brother) and a recently-promoted general from your starting province all into the Takeda heartland, destroying them entirely.

I then negotiated several alliances. Currently I'm friends with my previously-sworn-enemies the Hojo, amongst many others. My only enemies are the purple ones on the peninsular aruond Edo bay.

Oh, and I settled a mutually-beneficial marriage contract with the Kiso, ensuring them ultimate security in their long war against the Hattori whilst securing my lineage.

Good campaign so far

On Hard, btw.

[Ma'ahes]

Ignore Sado, and its delicious gold mine.

At least until you've counquered the two provinces to your left. That is to say, south of Echigo.

The increased income from those two provinces, and the rice they generate will help you out in the long run.

Actually, both of those provinces suck long and hard for development. It's why playing as the Takeda is actually quite difficult...you simply do not have cash-cows as provinces. Think about it this way; Sado, with a T2 gold mine, port, market, and sake den can make you almost 3k by around turn 10/12. Those other two cities not only stretch your forces thin if you get surprised by another foe, but they produce less in the long run than Sado does with pure economic developments. The Uesegi have the distinct ability to strike around enemy lines early on, allowing you to nip Date and Takeda aggressions quickly. Date declared war on you? Fine, take their NW province and see how long it takes before the Ashina finish them off. Takeda got you down with that big stack right along your border with them? Let them hit your capital. They'll be massacred, and now you can land a nice army to take those aforementioned cities that are virtually undefended.

Since the Uesegi start with but one city, the start will not only be slow, but you need to think long and hard about your city choices. While you may be spread "thin" along the coast, it is still along the coast. This means one avenue to be attacked from, and allows more money to roll in. Your starting province is also ridiculously large; it will take enemy armies a while to reach you, so use that to your advantage. Build monks/metsuke to scout around, use ships to move your main army around to support garrisons, and use a secondary army to land behind the enemy lines when they dedicate a significant force to taking out whatever province has struck their fancy. Try and build trade relations with the western factions, since you'll kind of want to be at war with everyone nearby. Why? Because it pays to be aggressive as the Uesegi...there are very few "rich" provinces nearby, as they are mostly down south. So scout out what city you want, determine what cities will need to be taken to secure its borders, and start a war.

Cry havoc, and let loose the warrior monks!

[Death_Sheep]

Actually, both of those provinces suck long and hard for development. It's why playing as the Takeda is actually quite difficult...you simply do not have cash-cows as provinces. Think about it this way; Sado, with a T2 gold mine, port, market, and sake den can make you almost 3k by around turn 10/12. Those other two cities not only stretch your forces thin if you get surprised by another foe, but they produce less in the long run than Sado does with pure economic developments. The Uesegi have the distinct ability to strike around enemy lines early on, allowing you to nip Date and Takeda aggressions quickly. Date declared war on you? Fine, take their NW province and see how long it takes before the Ashina finish them off. Takeda got you down with that big stack right along your border with them? Let them hit your capital. They'll be massacred, and now you can land a nice army to take those aforementioned cities that are virtually undefended.

Since the Uesegi start with but one city, the start will not only be slow, but you need to think long and hard about your city choices. While you may be spread "thin" along the coast, it is still along the coast. This means one avenue to be attacked from, and allows more money to roll in. Your starting province is also ridiculously large; it will take enemy armies a while to reach you, so use that to your advantage. Build monks/metsuke to scout around, use ships to move your main army around to support garrisons, and use a secondary army to land behind the enemy lines when they dedicate a significant force to taking out whatever province has struck their fancy. Try and build trade relations with the western factions, since you'll kind of want to be at war with everyone nearby. Why? Because it pays to be aggressive as the Uesegi...there are very few "rich" provinces nearby, as they are mostly down south. So scout out what city you want, determine what cities will need to be taken to secure its borders, and start a war.

Cry havoc, and let loose the warrior monks!

Those provinces I took and developed gave me a toehold and the capital to construct a giant waddling turtle of an Uesugi campaign. Castles flowed from the farms, and since I concentrated on the Civic side of things, those two farms and the income they generated helped me out in the long and short run.

But in no way am I implying thats the best way to go about it.

It took me a lot of political manuevering and forging of alliances and vassaldoms to secure a good position. Most notably, I let my Vassals the Hojo get to big, smack dab in the middle of my territory. But as first play throughs go, yeah, Sado may be worth the trouble. But that stretch of sea looks bigger than it is, and thar be pirates....

I can't say the way I did it was the easier, but it was challenging. XD

[Ma'ahes]

Those provinces I took and developed gave me a toehold and the capital to construct a giant waddling turtle of an Uesugi campaign. Castles flowed from the farms, and since I concentrated on the Civic side of things, those two farms and the income they generated helped me out in the long and short run.

But in no way am I implying thats the best way to go about it.

It took me a lot of political manuevering and forging of alliances and vassaldoms to secure a good position. Most notably, I let my Vassals the Hojo get to big, smack dab in the middle of my territory. But as first play throughs go, yeah, Sado may be worth the trouble. But that stretch of sea looks bigger than it is, and thar be pirates....

I can't say the way I did it was the easier, but it was challenging. XD

Oh, I like those provinces as well, but I like to let Takeda get all uppity and attack my capital with a full stack, leaving those provinces undefended. Easier that way, hehe. Of course, it relies on you pissing Takeda off, which means no nifty trade agreements with them.

[vietanh797]

getting Fukushima (I'm really sad whenever I take it)

watch out for nuclear Radioactive decay it may be very dangerous especially in winter

[Raimeken]

Funny, instead of just letting Takeda sit there as my allies, I slowly stole territory away from him with the monk+ninja tactic, now Takeda is down to a minor faction as a buffer against the growing Hattori and Oda clans (they keep on taking land from each other, its so random where their pieces of land are).

[visser300]

Funny, instead of just letting Takeda sit there as my allies, I slowly stole territory away from him with the monk+ninja tactic, now Takeda is down to a minor faction as a buffer against the growing Hattori and Oda clans (they keep on taking land from each other, its so random where their pieces of land are).

Wow, Oda could survive in your campaign? I never see it could pass through the first three turns in any kind of campaigns that I played. It's disappointed because I would like to beat the hell out of them by my own hands .

[Raimeken]

Wow, Oda could survive in your campaign? I never see it could pass through the first three turns in any kind of campaigns that I played. It's disappointed because I would like to beat the hell out of them by my own hands .

Oda reemerged after being destroyed by the Imagawa, and subsequently destroyed the Imagawa

[dutch81]

Wow, Oda could survive in your campaign? I never see it could pass through the first three turns in any kind of campaigns that I played. It's disappointed because I would like to beat the hell out of them by my own hands .

Play Tokugawa you can destroy them in turn 2 ... follow my instructions in the Tokugawa Strategy guide.

[aeoleron9]

I just started a Uesugi campaign and boy do their starting position suck. My plan is to wipe out Date and take their perfect position on one edge of Japan so I don't have to worry about too many fronts.

[Slaists]

I just started a Uesugi campaign and boy do their starting position suck. My plan is to wipe out Date and take their perfect position on one edge of Japan so I don't have to worry about too many fronts.

Yeah, a "secure position on one of Japan" Or so I thought too. Yesterday, we played a cooperative game (on hard settings) with a buddy of mine. I was playing Date while he was Mori. In about turn 15, Ouchi (yes, the minor ally of Mori) landed a full stack in my Northernmost province while I was fighting Uesugi multi-stack armies in the South...

out the window went "no worry about many fronts"

[Aonghus G. Friedhold]

I've played 2 partial and one near-complete Uesugi campaign, and it's always in your best interest to ally Hojo. Takeda dows you so much that if you can gain the upperhand and get a peace settlement, they'll be back soon. I managed to wipe them out without declaring war once. Usually I only got one castle at a time, but when you win a good victory like that, they seem eager to settle. Once you have all the Takeda lands and maybe some southern minors, Ikko-Ikki usually gives up 1-2 provinces pretty easily, no one else can really beat you 1v1. Of course usually if you wipe Takeda the Imogawa come after you, but if you vassal them, you also get Tokugawa as a vassal, and if they're doing well, like they did in my campaign, you're set.

[DeMolay]

With proper diplomacy (ally with Takeda as your first move , you"ll have your Takeda-Uesugi epic rivalry later in the game when your faction is already a credible force ) and conqueering Sado as your first move , the campaign quickly becomes easy providing you send at least 30 trade ships in 3 different trade nodes (40 ships in 4 trade nodes is even better )

Don't listen to people telling you to conqueer Etchu from the Jinbo as the first move , it works but it's harder , as it will only give you a not so rich province that is difficult to defend at the beggining (unless you want to sit a big army there , and cripple your finances or under-defend your capital ) , especially if you're not allied with Takeda .

At the start with Uesugi , don't wander with your troops , just build enough troops to defend Echigo , then spend all your money in everything that can make you earn more of it ( trading port is the first target with farming and then either a market or sake den in order to have an agent you can use a spy to see what are your neighbours doing ) .

Once your fleet is ready to invade Sado , go for it as soon as you can , the enemy will still slightly outnumber you on the Sado island , but you're a human so if you defeat them in the field , they'll retreat back in their castle and just starve them out .
The key is : in the first 10 turns , don't spend one single koku into something that will not help you achieve the conquest of Sado and invade it as you as you can , and meanwhile , make sure you are allied with Takeda at least , and other neighbours if possible like Mogami .

in such a situation , Uesugi is easy for a few reasons :

- thanks to your metsuke or ninja , you will see 2-3 turn in advance when Jinbo (who are not very aggressive btw ) or any other invaders will try to come to attack Echigo , because the land is vast , so you have time to prepare your defence
- Sado is Very rich and almost unpregnable once you have it , it is at least 2500 koku per season in your pocket (more than 4000 kokus once developped ) , which helps mustering an army large enough to be safe from invasion in Echigo
-Noto is an easy target once you have Sado , it has trading port , and is also very difficult for your enemies to invade (because it is isolated ) , and from there you can invade in any direction easily , west (Echizen and Kaga with armourer and craftsmen for superior archers ) or south (Etchu)
- You become richer than Takeda thanks to trade , in fact richer than anybody on the map before turn 25-30 (in less than 6-7 years in game ) , when at least 20-25 ships are sitting on trade nodes and you have trade agreements with faction owning ressources you don't have , yoour net income will become huge (compared to your neighbours especially )
- Even if a huge nightmar-ish miracle happens and you suddenly lose Echigo , Uesugi is still "unkillable" , because Sado+Noto combo ( powerful trade ) are almost impossible to conqueer if you have a decent navy and at least a fortress in Noto
- Once you are flithy rich , your army penetrate south like a hot blade into soft butter , so the likes of Takeda , Ashina , or Hojo become adversaries you can fight on equal grounds at least , as you can afford to leave a big garrison in Echigo and still send a full stack down south , while still making big profis at the end of each turn thanks to trade


But yea , to achieve all this requires early planning at the start of the campaign , and a hard battle on Sado island against the Honma clan where you almost need a heroic victory or close in order to prevail ( a bit like in Oda campaign ) , but once you get past this obstacle , well , you become a powerful clan

[Revolver]

After a disasterous start in my first H/H Uesugi campaign, I began another one and, while it's still early days, I have made a good start.
Although it seems to fly in the face of historical tradition, I think the key to laying solid foundations with this clan is to ally with the Takeda as soon as you discover them. Dispatch the rebels in your home province and concentrate immediately on building up an army. This will stall the Anegakoji's attack from the western border as they weigh up the size of your garrison and compare it to their invading army. Eventually, after a few turns, the Anegakoji actually stopped being hostile towards me. When this happened, I emptied my garrison onto a ship and sailed across to Sado, taking it without too much trouble at all.
15 seasons in and I have more allies than enemies. I am sitting back in the newly captured province of Noto and watching the Takeda clan and Anegakoji clan duke it out on the battlefield. Takeda are winning. But, before they completely mop up, I plan to swoop in and take Etchu, securing another border.

I found that it's essential to ally with the Takeda clan early in the campaign and cut yourself off from your starting vassal clan if they're attacked. That way, the Takeda are forced to branch out towards the Anegakoji and you kill two birds with one stone.

[M2TWRocks]

Wow, thanks for all the tips. Glad to see I'm not the only one who has struggled with them. I've heard people talk about Oda and Tokugawa being difficult, but I actually found them to be quite easy. Oda has about 3 invasions without the first 4 turns, but the enemy comes to you. I just defend from my fort while adding 2-4 ashigari to my army. Once all the initial invasions are over, the enemy's castle is 1 or 2 turns away with little to no garrison to defend. Compare that to Uesugi where everyone around you is spread around. There is no easy target to just hop on right from the start. I've tried every single approach I could think of in the past two days...turtling up, blitzing South, blitzing East, blitzing along the coast, invading Sado, etc. All met with frustration. I started a campaign this morning where I decided I would make an elite army of monks + Naginata's and just tear through anyone who dared declare war on me. I was able to secure an alliance with Takeda and Hojo, and fortunately Date declared war on Hojo. I now have most of Date's territories. But still, it was a massive pain in the a.

I may try the invasion of Sado + building up my navy approach that someone mentioned. Sounds like a lucrative idea.