Shogun 2 Realism (S2R)

[St. Cyr]

Battlespeed: I personally would like a standard battle speed between vanilla slow motion and normal speed. It would be so awesome to hear the battles as well as watching them, since i almost operate in slow motion setting.

Unit formations: I hate when my archers, guard mode enabled, break formation to fire at an enemy unit, even if it is in range. This happened in vanilla and DarthMod as well, so iam not complaining to you. Even the less i wished someone .. .. would fix this.

Thanks for the feedback but could you please clarify what you mean in these two points?

Battlespeed: playing at normal time setting, you should have enough time to move units etc, then settle in to watch the melee?

Were the archers simply moving to keep their target in range?

[Ulster Confederate]

-lesser gloss mod - will incorperate somthing similar into v2.

Lots of people use the Less Gloss/Shiny units mod

Yes please do something to remove the Shinny / plastic look from the units. The unit variety mod works great with Shogun 2 realism.

[St. Cyr]

For now, I would use the Less Shine/Gloss mod, then switch over when The Hedge Knight incorporates those features in his Unit Variety Mod.

[dem_n]

Hi St. Cyr, i attached a screen, showing what i mean about the archers and their positions.

Archers:
At the beginning of the battle, I deployed them behind defensive stakes, all fine. Toggeld guard mode. During combat, i ordered them to attack another target in range. Problem is, they change position and leave the stakes, instead of just turning their bodys a little. They did not have to so, but they decided to. Iam in control here ..

Battlespeed: I would personally enjoy a slower standard speed or more adjustment options, thats all.

Thx for fast reply.

[Drtad]

Which unit did you tell them to attack?

[Ultraman]

Hi St. Cyr, i attached a screen, showing what i mean about the archers and their positions.

Archers:
At the beginning of the battle, I deployed them behind defensive stakes, all fine. Toggeld guard mode. During combat, i ordered them to attack another target in range. Problem is, they change position and leave the stakes, instead of just turning their bodys a little. They did not have to so, but they decided to. Iam in control here ..

Battlespeed: I would personally enjoy a slower standard speed or more adjustment options, thats all.

Thx for fast reply.

Someone complained about this right after SG2 came out... that archers often turn the whole unit to face their target. Hardcoded?

[St. Cyr]

I always have my archers in loose formation with guard mode off, and I've never seen them move without me directing them to, unless they are moving to stay in range of a specific target.

Weird!

I'll try using guard mode and see if they do this....

[dem_n]

@ Drtad: Some yari ashigarus in the middle of the battlefield.

@ Ultraman: Thats what i mean.

[Nagashimo]

This mod looks interesting, i'll have to check it out when i finish my current campaign with DarthMod.

[dem_n]

The great clans keep vanishing within the first 4 seasons. Especially shimanzu, oda and tokugawa. I started about 4 new campaigns, at least one clan is destroyed by winter 1545.

I like the boosted samurai retainers, they gave me hell, they even resist cavalry shocks.
Also the clan specific samurai obtained when the mission is accomplished really make a difference now, since they are much more needed then before, even without any gear or morale upgraded.

Right now i play with Hattori. I can recruit ronin samurai already in the first round. Hmm, cool for me, but for the sake of gameplay balancing, a suggestion: - make them recruitable as a certain art ist mastered, like "shool of shinobi" in the chi section. Also, will the AI recruit ronin? Ill see, maybe i encounter some, i hope not .

[peank]

Thanks for addressing my question. Just a few more:
- With the increased armor and melee attack, do you plan to at least increase the ammo count for archers and matchlocks as well? Seems like they are becoming significantly less useful if they kept shooting arrows but the enemy die hard (because of the increased armor). Either that or increase the arrow damage as well but balance it well between different units.
- Will this be compatible with unit variation mod since you added new units?
- Am waiting for the stamina increase (maybe less for ashigarus but more for other higher level units). Right now it is just weird watching them fight but then none is winning since both of them are tired...

I will give this a try as soon as I finish my campaign. All the best!

[KyD[A]]

Yeah the fatigue system is broken, this mod needs like ALOT, ALOT more stamina in it.. I think that removing stamina, even if it sounds riddiculous, would be better than having people who cannot carry sword after 5 minute fight...

[inquisitor]

A great thank you for the mod community to make a game playable(again)...thank you very much

[mcantu]

Thanks for addressing my question. Just a few more:
- With the increased armor and melee attack, do you plan to at least increase the ammo count for archers and matchlocks as well? Seems like they are becoming significantly less useful if they kept shooting arrows but the enemy die hard (because of the increased armor). Either that or increase the arrow damage as well but balance it well between different units.
- Will this be compatible with unit variation mod since you added new units?
- Am waiting for the stamina increase (maybe less for ashigarus but more for other higher level units). Right now it is just weird watching them fight but then none is winning since both of them are tired...

I will give this a try as soon as I finish my campaign. All the best!

one issue in vanilla is arrows being too effective, esp against armored units. the armor wasn't just for looks...

[St. Cyr]

We are considering changes to the fatigue system, but even with the current system, your battles should be lasting significantly longer than vanilla. Battles are tiring affairs you know

It's all WIP.

[peank]

one issue in vanilla is arrows being too effective, esp against armored units. the armor wasn't just for looks...

Understood, but higher level archers (like samurai with high levels or bow hero) should be able to actually kill someone even with armor from afar. It's not just about realism, but about gameplay as well. Who wants to make bow hero anymore if they are very useless in combat, plus, there are probably only 30-40 of them. At least they should be able to kill entire squad of yari ashigaru.

At least increase the archer damage (for higher levels) by a bit, or give them more ammo. My last battle was long lasting alright, but since my troops has about 4-5 archer units, the katanas are fighting with the enemy and the archer could not help thin out the enemy troops, ended up using up all of the arrows and going melee, which they got killed right away. This is chosokabe bow samurais we are talking about here.

[DaVinci]

Yeah the fatigue system is broken, this mod needs like ALOT, ALOT more stamina in it.. I think that removing stamina, even if it sounds riddiculous, would be better than having people who cannot carry sword after 5 minute fight...

Nothing is broken, stamina isn't adressed as of yet vs. vanilla. And as for myself, i see the battles are much more realistic, and way more fun (adressing stamina is not a must, but we'll do something). Fatigue in battles is correct. I recommend to try wearing armour, a weapon, and then "fight" for a few seconds ... you'll see.

Understood, but higher level archers (like samurai with high levels or bow hero) should be able to actually kill someone even with armor from afar. It's not just about realism, but about gameplay as well. Who wants to make bow hero anymore if they are very useless in combat, plus, there are probably only 30-40 of them. At least they should be able to kill entire squad of yari ashigaru.

At least increase the archer damage (for higher levels) by a bit, or give them more ammo. My last battle was long lasting alright, but since my troops has about 4-5 archer units, the katanas are fighting with the enemy and the archer could not help thin out the enemy troops, ended up using up all of the arrows and going melee, which they got killed right away. This is chosokabe bow samurais we are talking about here.

Actually i wonder if you speak about our mod.

Ashigaru Bowmen, the simple standard unit without any extra exp, are effective in S2R, also with our armour increased. Correct is only that the terrible vanilla balance especially in this regard is away.

At least they should be able to kill entire squad of yari ashigaru.

? What's an entire squad ? Entire unit? You mean it is plausible that a unit of elite archers kills an entire infantry unit (which you can compare with a regiment) in the field with arrows? I must disappoint you, you won't experience this in S2R, unless you provide very clever tactics on the field, or the AI shows some of its bugs, ie. static behavior although rained with arrows.

Else, you can exploit archers when you siege/assault a castle, just let the arrows rain on Samurai retainers, and they are quick finished.
My goal is rather to decrease such exploits.

[Engenberg]

Dont mean to go on further, but archers need a buff.


Costs more than inf, but takes a screening role instead. Sometimes its like firing into a unit of asghiaru spearmeans wearing chainmail and shields. Atleast more effective against yari units, some of them wear short like trousers, cone hat and a stitched leatherbreastplate, a hail of 160 arrows should do better than the average 10-20 in close.

[DaVinci]

Dont mean to go on further, but archers need a buff.


Costs more than inf, but takes a screening role instead. Sometimes its like firing into a unit of asghiaru spearmeans wearing chainmail and shields. Atleast more effective against yari units, some of them wear short like trousers, cone hat and a stitched leatherbreastplate, a hail of 160 arrows should do better than the average 10-20 in close.

They'll getting better with exp boni, which become available via different locations, and just due to battles.

a hail of 160 arrows should do better than the average 10-20 in close

Edit: ... per volley or what? What you are saying is ca. 5-8 % casualties due to arrow rain. Bring me evidence (valid for the Senguko wars) that this must be higher if realism is considered, then we will correct it along proper sources.

Actually i have another experience than you, it seems, my archers give always success to my battles, when i have less archers than the AI army, i have a problem.

EDIT
While in the last consequence, we aim to provide a balance that prioritizes melee, not archer shootouts, which are rather supportive, but imo. can have decisive impacts (in my experience at least, especially when you assault castles or defend it).
The occurence of matchlocks first changes this historically, and we'll try to bring this into reflection somehow.

[Engenberg]

How can i give evidence to that? and how can you give evidence that its not like that?.

Im just saying, compared to archers in m2tw, where they were cheaper than infantry, the samurai and peasant yaris seems to have the same armour value as dismounted knights. Even in the battle of crecy, the bowmens did huge damage when they got the chanse to rain volley after volley.

Compare that to the historic armour of yari spearmen, its hard to see that they do the same amout of damage.

Maybe lowering the price of archer units would be a better call, since they dont have the same value as vanilla but in the same price-range.


I like this mod better than the two others, but it just seems all will go with the archer nerfs.

Gonna go further in my campaign now and test it out somemore.