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  1. #1
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    Default Master of the senses

    This subject interest me a great deal. To be able to manipulate your own mind and body as one would see as the ideal design, is a perk which scream Master of the Self. It's not about reaching for the purity of superman excellence, but to tweak ones own mind and body to be optimal(-prime he he, I couldn't help it) in it's own right, possibilities and limits. To maximise it's potential. The question in this thread is about: What do you see as good and bad senses your body have.



    If you had the ability to not feel the following aspects (or any other you can think off) of life anymore, but as you begin to weakened these same feelings you begin to wounder which of these factors are truly useful in your practical life - which would you choose to have and which would you completely discard or begin to disassociate your mind from to some degree...

    For informational purposes:

    Wikipedia's definition of the senses


    Read more here.

    Senses are the physiological capacities within organisms that provide inputs for perception. The senses and their operation, classification, and theory are overlapping topics studied by a variety of fields, most notably neuroscience, cognitive psychology (or cognitive science), and philosophy of perception. The nervous system has a specific sensory system or organ, dedicated to each sense.
    Human beings have a multitude of senses. In addition to the traditional five senses of sight (ophthalmoception), hearing (audioception), taste (gustaoception), smell (olfacoception or olfacception), and touch (tactioception); other senses include temperature (thermoception), kinesthetic sense (proprioception), pain (nociception), balance (equilibrioception) and acceleration (kinesthesioception). What constitutes a sense is a matter of some debate, leading to difficulties in defining what exactly a sense is.



    Let's take the following hypothetical theory:

    I don't have feelings, or I do, but it takes some great effort for me now to connect with what I feel:

    I don't feel the cold temperature very well at all these days.
    I don't feel heat to a high degree if I don't put my mind to it.
    I don't feel the usual pain of deep cuts and bruises if I don't put my mind to it.
    I don't see colours well. (I'm blind that way)
    I don't feel the smell(like food), or I do, but it has to be very intense for me to even recognise any at this point.




    • So when I cut myself at work on a razor blade or a big diamond blade, the blood pours out, I don't see it before the blood is all over the construction site.
    • When I jog in -20 for an hour a couple of days in the morning. My skin cracks and turn into an 85 year-old - I genuinely don't take notice before it's too late.
    Not practical senses:
    Cutaneous pain receptors (of the skin) - Why should I want to feel physical pain from my skin receptors in my daily life? I'm not a soldier, I'm a carpenter.

    Thermoception (temperature) - Why should I feel temperature at all? What purpose does it have in this day and age were I can look at a thermostat and use clothing?

    Hyposmia (reduced ability to detect flavor) - Why should I feel the sweetness of unhealthy candy, the juiciness of a fat steak, the bad taste and smell of nutritious food like green food or light-fat products which are healthy?


    Practical senses:
    Colour Sight - I do feel that seeing colours can be a good sense to have, but on the other hand it's a perk for me to not do the laundry, be asked to buy any clothing or paint the houses for my friends.

    Hearing - Hearing is definitely a practical perk to have (unless you are a married man ).

    Hyposmia (reduced ability to smell/detect flavor) - Very practical to smell ones own odour in the summer months.

    Vestibular sense (Balance and acceleration senses) - Very good sense.

    Kinesthetic sense - A useful sense, to say the least.

    /theory

    Do you agree with this theory?

    So the question is, if you had the ability to choose to have the current level of sensitivity in your sense mechanism or make your self less sensitive to these (or other) feelings, which would you choose to have and which is impractical to you? Would you discard any of them as nothing more then an irrational nuisance, if you had the choice to?

    Many thanks,

    ~Wille
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Master of the senses

    I agree, and I would love to be able to discard my hearing when I'm trying to sleep or read, so long as I can get it back. I wouldn't get rid of pain though, as it is much more useful than it feels. I might use it though in situations when I am expecting pain though.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Master of the senses

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Philp View Post
    I agree, and I would love to be able to discard my hearing when I'm trying to sleep or read, so long as I can get it back.
    This is about you having a choice for a permanent change in your sense mechanism, changing the sensitivity or shutting of a specific sense completly. Not a switch you can change in the morning or evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Philp View Post
    I wouldn't get rid of pain though, as it is much more useful than it feels. I might use it though in situations when I am expecting pain though.
    I can't find a good argument for the need of strong pain receptors in my skin or blood area. For what? Really. So that I don't get scars on my skin? Well, I don't see anything critically negative in a scar on my body. I do on the other hand see alot of positive aspects of not caring much for pain, at least in my line of work (carpentry). A scar would also just communicate experience ( "A burned child smell") and let's not mention the awesome nature of just having a cool scar. He he.

    ~Wille
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Master of the senses

    I want my hearing back. I think sitting in front of a trumpet section for too many years gave my ears this faint ringing tone.

    I also want my night-vision back, long trips especially. If it gets too bad I'll be looking into Lasik...

    Pain is a useful sensation. My fingers are heavily calloused from rockclimbing and carpentry. Last summer I overdrove a woodscrew right into my middle finger, and only noticed it when I couldn't put the boards down! If I'd felt the screw drilling its way into my flesh, I may've dropped the boards before they were fastened to my hand.

    I'm tempted to say a diminished sense of smell would be nice, but then my food wouldn't taste so great.

    Incidentally, I may be spending my REI dividend on a pair of Vibram Fivefingers 'shoes':

    ...apparently (despite their goofy appearance) they're capable of promoting a more natural gait, strengthening foot muscles, increasing circulation, correcting some types of chronic pain, and increasing the wearer's tactile awareness. My only hope is I don't become too aware of goat's heads, cactus spines, broken glass...etc.
    Giving tax breaks to the wealthy, is like giving free dessert coupons to the morbidly obese.

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    Default Re: Master of the senses

    Quote Originally Posted by chamaeleo View Post
    I'm tempted to say a diminished sense of smell would be nice, but then my food wouldn't taste so great.
    Take my word for it. My sense of smell is horrendous, as is my ability to taste. I simply don't enjoy most types of cooking because I can't appreciate the flavours. As such, my eating experience is primarily based on the texture of food, or foods with really strong flavours, which turns it all into a fairly childish approach to food overall.

    I can't even tell the difference between bitter and sour, for example. Really basic stuff like that and I'm horrible at it. Take any sort of dish that involves a composite of foods and people will be enjoying all the different flavours they taste and I'll just be sitting there wondering who's idea it was to throw all this nonsense together and call it cooking.

    I'm horrible to cook for.
    I have approximate answers and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I don’t know anything about. But I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing.
    - Richard Feynman's words. My atheism.

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    Default Re: Master of the senses

    Firstly, read this article on the sense of sight.
    Resource: Colour blindness corrected by gene therapy

    Colour blindness corrected by gene therapy

    Treated monkeys can now see in technicolour

    Researchers have used gene therapy to restore colour vision in two adult monkeys that have been unable to distinguish between red and green hues since birth — raising the hope of curing colour blindness and other visual disorders in humans.
    "This is a truly amazing study," says András Komáromy, a vision researcher and veterinary ophthalmologist at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, who was not involved in the research. "If we can target gene expression specifically to cones [in humans] then this has a tremendous implication."
    About 1 in 12 men lack either the red- or the green-sensitive photoreceptor proteins that are normally present in the colour-sensing cells, or cones, of the retina, and so have red–green colour blindness. A similar condition affects all male squirrel monkeys (Saimiri sciureus), which naturally see the world in just two tones. The colour blindness in the monkeys arises because full colour vision requires two versions of the opsin gene, which is carried on the X chromosome. One version codes for a red-detecting photoreceptor, the other for a green-detecting photoreceptor. As male monkeys have only one X chromosome, they carry only one version of the gene and are inevitably red–green colour blind. A similar deficiency accounts for the most common form of dichromatic color blindness in humans. Fewer female monkeys suffer from the condition as they have two X chromosomes, and often carry both versions of the opsin gene.
    "Here is an animal that is a perfect model for the human condition," says Jay Neitz of the University of Washington in Seattle, a member of the team that carried out the experiment.



    The monkeys were trained to touch a screen when they saw coloured patches.Neitz Laboratory



    Neitz and his colleagues introduced the human form of the red-detecting opsin gene into a viral vector, and injected the virus behind the retina of two male squirrel monkeys — one named Dalton in honour of the British chemist, John Dalton, who was the first to describe his own colour blindness in 1794, and the other named Sam. The researchers then assessed the monkeys' ability to find coloured patches of dots on a background of grey dots by training them to touch coloured patches on a screen with their heads, and then rewarding them with grape juice. The test is a modified version of the standard 'Cambridge Colour Test' where people must identify numbers or other specific patterns in a field of coloured dots.
    Colour coded

    After 20 weeks, the monkeys' colour skills improved dramatically, indicating that Dalton and Sam had acquired the ability to see in three shades (see video). Both monkeys have retained this skill for more than two years with no apparent side effects, the researchers report in Nature1.
    Adding the missing gene was sufficient to restore full colour vision without further rewiring of the brain even though the monkeys had been colour blind since birth. "There is this plasticity still in the brain and it is possible to treat cone defects with gene therapy," says Alexander Smith, a molecular biologist and vision researcher at University College London, who did not contribute to the study.
    "It doesn't seem like new neural connections have to be formed," says Komáromy. "You can add an additional cone opsin pigment and the neural circuitry and visual pathways can deal with it."




    Three human gene therapy trials are currently under way for loss of sight due to serious degeneration of the retina. These phase I safety studies injected a similar type of virus vector (but carrying a different gene) behind the retina as in the monkeys, and people treated have shown no serious adverse effects more than a year after, with some participants reporting marked improvements in vision2. These first human trials — which repair rods, a different type of photoreceptor cell — can be seen as a safety benchmark for any future treatment of cone diseases and colour blindness in humans, says Neitz.
    "The biggest issue is that people who are colour blind have very good vision," Neitz says. "So before people are going to want to treat colour blindness you're going to want to ensure that this is completely safe, and that's going to take some work."

    References

    1. <LI id=B1 sizset="24" sizcache="45">Mancuso, K. et al. Nature advanced online publication, doi:10.1038/nature08401 (2009).
    2. Cideciyan, A. V. et al. N. Engl. J. Med. 361, 725-727 (2009).


    There is this comment further down from the article which sparked my actual curiosity about superhuman sight:

    Originally Posted by Titus Jewell
    The real story here is that if we can turn dichromats (the "colorblind") into trichromats (normals), then we can change trichromats into tetrachromats.
    This means that the same technology that can "cure" the colorblind can also enhance normals. These enhanced humans could see perhaps 100-1000 times as many colors as normals see. These additional colors might be expected to include (1) two additional primary colors, (2) an array of "alien" binary hues, and (3) a whole class of especially trippy "trinary" hues which we can currently only define mathematically.
    And there is no need to stop there. Scientists have been busy isolating photopigment genes from other animals for decades.
    If enhancing color perception is simply a matter of splicing in photopigment genes, then we might conceivably enhance vision to the point that it becomes it is no longer recognizable as what we used to call "color vision".
    That is some extremly fascinating changes, and something I would definitly put my money on.

    ~Wille
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Master of the senses

    What two feelings I'd love to ignore is:

    Pain and cold.

    But, if I didn't feel pain, I might not be able to notice the dangerous signs my body gave so I might end up injuring myself.
    If I didn't feel cold I might not be able to notice it before I might lose a toe or two. Hell, I might even die without knowing it because I went to sleep while cold/wet/poorly wrapped in.


    I hate pain, and cold the most, but I know it's essential that I can feel it to survive. Life's a >.<
    "He who wishes to be the best for his people, must do that which is necessary - and be willing to go to hell for it."

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Master of the senses

    Quote Originally Posted by SinerAthin View Post
    What two feelings I'd love to ignore is:

    Pain and cold.

    But, if I didn't feel pain, I might not be able to notice the dangerous signs my body gave so I might end up injuring myself.
    In practice of your day-to-day life, how critical would the pain sensor be to you? Do you life such a dangeruos life everyday that your pain sensory is of such a vital importence? Wow, what the hell is you profession that render this feat as an obligation?

    If I didn't feel cold I might not be able to notice it before I might lose a toe or two. Hell, I might even die without knowing it because I went to sleep while cold/wet/poorly wrapped in.
    That sound more like you are sceared of loosing a toe, then the probability of you actually loosing a toe. Were do you? On greenland in an iglo next to a polarbear?


    I hate pain, and cold the most, but I know it's essential that I can feel it to survive. Life's a >.<
    Survive life? Deam, you have a hard life for those things to be essensial in your very day-to-day survival. What do you do to stay alive? Ha ha

    ~Wille
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Master of the senses

    @the O.P. ,

    Can I kick this up a few levels? Thanks.

    When a person says "Master of the senses" that person should, IMHO, have control of themselves to a very tight degree, not a neurotic degree mind you!

    One can't "master the senses" if one doesn't master the mind and one can't master the mind unless one realizes that one is spirit utilizing the brain within the human body.
    Why sir do you want to scrutinize the "5 senses" as well as "ancillary" senses?
    Accept them and master yourSELF.

    Dig?
    hellas1.5....Trying to master a greater degree of logic via using textbooks! Yeeeaow....

  10. #10
    CamilleBonparte's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Master of the senses

    We feel pain for a reason.

    http://health.howstuffworks.com/dise.../rare/cipa.htm (Yeah, it's from the wiki, do a quick google search if you want a better source, they all say the same thing)

    Not as fun a disorder as it sounds at first blush.
    "If History is deprived of the truth, we are left with nothing but an idle, unprofitable tale." - Polybius
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