Is pest control right?

[Senex Civis]

I come from a family of what you could call 'hunters' they regualrly shoot, kill and skin/eat animals such as foxes, deer and rabbits.
When questioned they say that its pest control and i should stay out of it, but i think its cruel and inhuman (possibly rabbits being an exception) and i would see it stopped if i could.

So whats your opinion of this so called 'pest control'

http://animalrights.about.com/od/wil...ngArgument.htm

[HansDuet]

Necessary.

Traffic accidents (moose cause 1300 accidents yearly in Finland alone, including 4-5 fatalities), damage to property (forests etc) all these kinds of things require you to keep animal numbers down.

People who live their entire lives in big cities where occasional rat is the biggest animal around have some difficulty understanding that they actually do damage.

[Gelgoog]

Necessary.

[conon394]

I come from a family of what you could call 'hunters' they regualrly shoot, kill and skin/eat animals such as foxes, deer and rabbits.
When questioned they say that its pest control and i should stay out of it, but i think its cruel and inhuman (possibly rabbits being an exception) and i would see it stopped if i could.

So whats your opinion of this so called 'pest control'

Well now let's just step back here...

Deer and rabbits, well my cats (well at least Iowa and Michigan) used to catch and kill rabbits on a daily basis and my garden cabbage still got consumed down to the base by rabbits so I going to say no problem here. Deer well since when I drive my kids to school I can see 6-20 deer wondering around in the street I thinking here in most US states the deer pop is more or less excessive.

More generally Human impacts - agriculture, suburbia and the elimination of many predator species have skewed the 'nature' environment in the extreme. Lots of things eat and hunt rabbits; owls, coyotes, cats, etc I don't see any reason why humans should not also as long as the goal is just simple gratuitous killing. Deer are more or less out of control in much of the US causing any number of problems - hunting is a moderately effective means of control and earns revenue which typical supports state fish and wildlife and/or park services.

Fox - a bit more tricky as in some places the population is endangered and they do control other pest animals. Like coyotes or raccoons I have no problem with a farmers right to eliminate them as an acute risk to chickens or such on their own property. I also again don't see an issue with a well manged state run controlled hunting to keep a population in check so as to prevent illness or migration to suburbia or urban areas and garbage eating etc.

OP - found some rather biased opinion on those about pages huh? The secondary link on deer management is a eye rolling venture into sophism.

"To these agencies, deer are a resource, not sentient beings with their own inherent rights."

Yes and I sure as soon as the Deer produce a declaration of their inherent rights I'll be impressed, is that the right to ripped to shreds by wolves instead of shot? Also seeing as Human history kinda of shows that the profession of human deer hunting rather predates that of "animal rights attorney" by tens of thousands of years one might just consider that deer hunting is the more normal perhaps?

"As a result, deer management is usually designed to keep the deer population high. For example, the Arizona Game and Fish Department’s mission is:"

To conserve, enhance, and restore Arizona’s diverse wildlife resources and habitats through aggressive protection and management programs, and to provide wildlife resources and safe watercraft and off-highway vehicle recreation for the enjoyment, appreciation, and use by present and future generations.

Funny thing I see nothing about elevated deer pop. What I see a realist view that the human footprint is large and if we are to have wild area and wild life we need to work at it. The author of the screed Doris Lin appears to work in Southern California and got her education in MIT. I wonder does think about the dislocation of wildlife habitation everyday she drives to work on Californian's endless freeways, or how about it with every drink of water she has or every toilet flush - I mean all the hunters in Arizona since Columbus have likely done less smashing of the local environment than the monstrous anomaly that is southern California and is sprawl and water misuse and irrigation and pollution.

I sure Ms Lin is honest and firm in her beliefs, but I also don't think anyone can doubt her view is shall we say biased in this case. About.com deserve the a black eye here in allowing a clearly biased viewpoint to published in a context that suggests neutrality.

-----

edit: I would balk at the word pest however. Pests is an unfair term and implies in my mind either a human parasite with real disease carrying risk (tick, lice, flea), or something that is a real issue in dense human development (urban areas) like rats or raccoons (where they are rabies vector) pests are public health issues.
The local deer are annoying but with hunting I've not seen any starve or have mange or such and the Coyotes that get too comfortable with people need to be shot to prevent loss but I'd not call them pests.

[LSJ]

People dislike wolves and snakes, so they kill them. But then forests get stripped of certain tree species because there are no deer predators, and farms get overrun by rodents and rabbits, and livestock catch diseases.

As much as I hate hunting, it has become a necessary control to prevent total destruction of forests and farms. The fact that humans caused the problem isn't going to change anything because humans will continue to hate predators. It only takes one 30cm tall monstrosity of a pet dog to get eaten by a starving coyote, and a whole community rises up against coyotes. Right now I don't know of any other practical solution than population control by humans.

[Voodo chile]

in some countries, hunting pests in a necessary step in ensuring that the country maintains its original state.
Senex Civix you come from a sick family. (by sick i mean awesome)
Not many people these days hunt animals and then eat them and get the hides. If i were you i'd make a bow. Its said that animals make the best bow materials.

[Vir Triumphalis]

I think so, because I don't feel them struggling holding on to their life. Killing a rat is one thing, pest control is another.

[Kjertesvein]

The only good cat on my territory, is a dead cat. Is that pest control enough for you?

Your family sound strange to me if they tell you to "stay out of it". It only tells me that they either can't handle the criticism of their actions.

~Wille

[Sadreddine]

The only good cat on my territory, is a dead cat. Is that pest control enough for you?

That's a very disgusting thing to say.

This reminds me of something. I have a problem with these small moths in my house, although so far we are living in peace...however their population is steadily increasing and they can be annoying as they love my towels and shirts, and my cat seemingly toys with them rather than outright slaughter them (well she is a bit clumsy when hunting them, to be fair).

As far as the topic goes, I don't find pest control desirable unless the situation is unbearable, which is not the case in most situations pest control is actually applied.

[HansDuet]

As far as the topic goes, I don't find pest control desirable unless the situation is unbearable, which is not the case in most situations pest control is actually applied.

Or, instead of waiting until it gets unbearable, keep their numbers in acceptable levels.

Its better for the "pest" species too, a steady population instead of one going up and down following hunting seasons.

[Kjertesvein]

That's a very disgusting thing to say.

If I changed the word cat, with mouse, would you feel any better about me? A pest to me, is a pest, regardless of how cute their eyes look to you.

~Wille

[Himster]

If I changed the word cat, with mouse, would you feel any better about me? A pest to me, is a pest, regardless of how cute their eyes look to you.

~Wille

It is quite likely that a cat is owned and loved by someone, it is unlikely for a mouse to be owned and loved and be outside like that.

[Sadreddine]

If I changed the word cat, with mouse, would you feel any better about me? A pest to me, is a pest, regardless of how cute their eyes look to you.

Watching Shrek lately?

I'd think the same if you had said mouse instead of cat, doing otherwise would be hipocritical on my part.

[Kjertesvein]

Watching Shrek lately?

Only the commercials.

I'd think the same if you had said mouse instead of cat, doing otherwise would be hipocritical on my part.

Even a rat? Well, in that case TWC suprise me still.

~Wille

[Sadreddine]

Even a rat? Well, in that case TWC suprise me still.

Well you said mouse, not rat.

Rats indeed can be directly responsible for illnesses and other dangers to human society, thus I'd be more inclined to keep them away (or kill them if the need was dire in defense of human health) as soon as those illnesses and dangers posed measurable threat to concerned neighbours. That's not the case of a deer that happens to be on your way and as a result of the accident someone dies, which is very unfortunate, but not a reason to exterminate generally harmless animals.

Or, instead of waiting until it gets unbearable, keep their numbers in acceptable levels.

But then we have the problem of determining what 'acceptable level' means, as it can easily imply 'as long as I don't see them ever again', which usually leads to indiscriminate slaughter. See wolves and lynx in Spain that were hunted until their practical extinction.

'Unbearable' is ambiguous too I guess, but I think more reasonable in order to apply extreme measures than 'acceptable'. After all, species tend to regulate themselves, unless artificially helped or introduced in an alien environment by humans.

[Sadreddine]

Hunting for food is completely ok in my book. I can't see how anyone could think it is morally wrong, as it is just natural for humans.

[HansDuet]

Moose tastes delicious by the way.

Its not like those killed are left to rot.

But then we have the problem of determining what 'acceptable level' means, as it can easily imply 'as long as I don't see them ever again', which usually leads to indiscriminate slaughter. See wolves and lynx in Spain that were hunted until their practical extinction.

I won't advocate exterminating a species, culling is strictly regulated by officials, endangered species are not hunted. I have full confidence in our dear ministry of agriculture and forestry about deciding how large the animal population should be. To keep the species alive and kicking while keeping damage to property at minimum.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Should we have moral values at all? Or should we just allow society degenerate into a huge sado-masochistic sexual orgy?

Perhaps we should stop applying a trite sentimentalism to basest things in life, then?

[conon394]

If I changed the word cat, with mouse, would you feel any better about me? A pest to me, is a pest, regardless of how cute their eyes look to you

Cute has nothing to do with it. A feral population of dogs or cats or pigs can be be pests certainly, but be fair dogs, cats and pigs were domesticated for a reason. I don't know where you live but in the rural area I live in my 3 house cats and 4 barn cats are working animals and certainly not pests.


------------------------

Should we have moral values at all? Or should we just allow society degenerate into a huge sado-masochistic sexual orgy?

Perhaps we should stop applying a trite sentimentalism to basest things in life, then?

What?

[Kjertesvein]

Cute has nothing to do with it. A feral population of dogs or cats or pigs can be be pests certainly, but be fair dogs, cats and pigs were domesticated for a reason. I don't know where you live but in the rural area I live in my 3 house cats and 4 barn cats are working animals and certainly not pests.

I might also add that I'm in the extra-ordinary circumstance of being highly allergic to cats. Even the slightest of cat hair in my system will clog my air vents and blow my eyes up to the size of tomatoes. Ergo, the only good cat on my territory, is a dead cat 6 feet under.

~Wille