Google censorship in china

[krazykarl]

What do you guys think of the google censorship in china 'scandal'

Personally, I dont see why people think that they have the right to get mad at google for censorship, they only do it in china, and they are only doing it at the mandate of the chineese government. Would not a censored google be better then no google at all?
If it were such a big problem, shouldnt the chineese be the ones protesting, shouldnt they be the ones speaking out? And to those who say you cant blah blah, opressive regime, if the populous is unhappy, they can make a regime change on thier own, they dont need western backing to do it. I believe that in time, when china reaches the status of 'developed country' It will realize on its own that you cant censor people, or you face reprisal from the censored.


EDIT:oops I put this thread in the wrong spot, meant to put it in the political mudpit, could someone please move it for me?

[Kanaric]

They got to work with what they can get.

[RZZZA]

Didn't we have a thread exactly like this a little while ago? I coulda sworn that we did...

[Aristophanes]

They got to work with what they can get.

That strikes me as a rather blase attitude.

[Kanaric]

That strikes me as a rather blase attitude.

Why? I guess we should arrest and close Nike for violating child labor laws then? Boycott them as well.

Why not other American companies as well? I'm sure many thousands of them would be closed down if we truely cared.

Like I said, they want the business so they got to work with what they got. Its as simple as that. If you care about it so much then burn all your clothes, shoes, cars, etc as their made by slave labor which is even worse.

The thing is WE also got to work with what we got. Since corporations are evil and refuse to abide by common morals and the fact that the government doesn't care so long as it doesn't occur in our country we realize we can do nothing about it and go on with our lives. Simple.

Also censoring is HARDLY a "crime". I mean the US government does it to the radio, tv, magazines, etc.

[Aristophanes]

Why? I guess we should arrest and close Nike for violating child labor laws then? Boycott them as well.

Why not other American companies as well? I'm sure many thousands of them would be closed down if we truely cared.

Like I said, they want the business so they got to work with what they got. Its as simple as that. If you care about it so much then burn all your clothes, shoes, cars, etc as their made by slave labor which is even worse.

The thing is WE also got to work with what we got. Since corporations are evil and refuse to abide by common morals and the fact that the government doesn't care so long as it doesn't occur in our country we realize we can do nothing about it and go on with our lives. Simple.

Also censoring is HARDLY a "crime". I mean the US government does it to the radio, tv, magazines, etc.

I consider censorship to be a crime, and I would like to live in a society where it didn't occur. Although the US government, and I disagree strongly with this practice, does censor heavily, they have yet to actively prevent or attack dissident political thought.

In fact, the actions of the US government and the Chinese government are really not comparable, except on the very broad, multi-faceted topic of censorship; but in those situations where we neglect degree or category, we cloud the debate. Do not confuse those two entities because, for all the US's many faults, it is not even remotely in the Chinese league.

Wow: cogent argument. You can name several corporations, out of hundreds of thousands which exist, that have been engaged in unethical dealings, and suddenly, bingo, 'all corporations are evil.' There are hundreds of thousands of people in my city, and every year, thousands are implicated in crimes from the banal to the despicable: based upon your train of reasoning, the people in my city are 'evil'. Taking your argument a step further, a majority of governments[most] on this planet engage in, by any standads, entirely unethical, sadistic, murderous, bigoted, violent tactics; ergo, governments are 'evil'.

This leads me to wonder what exactly 'common morals' are, considering most of the people I know, everyone, in fact, has engaged in some ethical infraction[minor or major] against someone else I knew.[this is hardly uncommon: there isn't a person on this planet who couldn't say the same thing]

I'm sorry, but your arguments are hardly convincing. If corporations are 'evil' so is everything else. Maybe you need to re-arrange your perspective so you won't engage in such meaningless generalization.

[Søren]

Moved

[RusskiSoldat]

What's the problem?
When companies can freely ignore governments under which they operate will be a sad time indeed.

[sephodwyrm]

Yes...let the others do the complaining for us while our indigenous workhorses come up with better search engines...

[Ahlerich]

as far as i know google tried to not give in to that censorship right away.. so finally they might have hat to give in.
does not put them into a bad light as far as i m concerned. when the us finally get access to google files from their users it is also bad but not really googles fault. i mean they dont just day: yes ok take it

[internationalist]

I mean...I don't see what the big deal is. I was upset that google would "sell out" so to speak, but then I thought about it, and realized that companies in capitalist countries will do anything to make money. 'nuff said

[danzig]

What do you guys think of the google censorship in china 'scandal'

Personally, I dont see why people think that they have the right to get mad at google for censorship, they only do it in china, and they are only doing it at the mandate of the chineese government. Would not a censored google be better then no google at all?
If it were such a big problem, shouldnt the chineese be the ones protesting, shouldnt they be the ones speaking out? And to those who say you cant blah blah, opressive regime, if the populous is unhappy, they can make a regime change on thier own, they dont need western backing to do it. I believe that in time, when china reaches the status of 'developed country' It will realize on its own that you cant censor people, or you face reprisal from the censored.

Because Google protrays itself by its do no evil motto, because Google on the other hand rejected the US goverments request for information thus making them hypocrits and because it shows a company is more willing to ***** itself out all in the name of Chinese market share. It is worriesome the number of western countries that are willing to bend over for China or risk being shut out of the market, that isnt free enterprise that is basically extortion and companies are all lining up to be the next one to comply. Also there is the fact that the very basis of Google's existence is searching of information and to put limits on it would be like GM selling cars with 3 wheels. Most important to me is principle, Google preached all this crap about being based on principle and they have shown they are hypocrits. This also isnt the first time Google has bend over for China, their Google map for a long time showed Taiwan as a Taiwan, China.

[Erik]

Because Google protrays itself by its do no evil motto

And they are still upholding this motto.
"Do no evil" doesn't mean "Rid the world of all evil".
The censorship wil be there with or without Google.

Handing over customer information is a very different story.
If they do that they are actively helping a government in a policy that could be considered "evil" (especially in the case of China who uses it to arrest political opponents).

[Dirty Harry]

yahoo is way worse than google, they actually help the communists track down and arrest people. I hope yahoo shareholders enjoy living with the fact that men are being tossed in brutal chinese prisons for no more than overtly wishing for democracy in their country, cuz the blood is on their hands.

RusskiSoldat, nobody is suggesting that companies disobey the laws, of course Yahoo, google and all other western corporations are obligated to do what the goverment tells them and they are also obligated to make as much money as they can for their shareholders within the bounds of the law. W

What should be happening is that western goverments should be taking the stand here and telling them: Ok, you want to do business in china and bow to wicked laws from an opressive regime that has no respect for human life, then you will face massive penalties here. When given the choice between being fined billions of dollars for violating the principles upon which the countries they are from are built on and increasing chinese market share, they would be forced to sacrifice the latter until a humane goverment runs China.

It's up to western political leadership to make this kind of stand, but I doubt it will happen cuz plenty of western politicians are kissing Chinese ass too. You hardly get a peep out of them conerning Chinese violations of humanity, hell we're letting them host the olympics while hundreds of thousands of unjustly jailed people rot, are tortured, and die in their penal system

[sephodwyrm]

hundreds of thousands of unjustly jailed people rot, are tortured, and die in their penal system

Like the US?

Don't get me wrong, but the CCP does imprison lower number of people / total population compared to many countries.

[Kanaric]

Like the US?

Don't get me wrong, but the CCP does imprison lower number of people / total population compared to many countries.

Whats funny is that your right, you would think that 1.3 billion people would equal many many more criminals.

I don't know about falun gong, ppl stop taking medicine cause they think there cancer/whatever will heal on it's own, and that isn't really good. Have you seen some of the fanatics? Like that guy who burned himself with gasoline in protest?

Yes I really dislike religions like that. I have heard some horror stories of US religions that were simular to that.

[Dirty Harry]

whatever the faults of the American legal system (and they do exist), they do not throw people in jail for dozens of years just for writing an email that complains about the leadership of the country, or for practicing a peaceful religious excersize (Falun Gong).

[Gogoas]

I don't know about falun gong, ppl stop taking medicine cause they think there cancer/whatever will heal on it's own, and that isn't really good. Have you seen some of the fanatics? Like that guy who burned himself with gasoline in protest?

[sephodwyrm]

Well, to tell you guys, Falun Gong was just another Qigong school that was mostly composed of old men and women. They coexisted with the CCP for several years until the CCP decided to smash them...and this only occured when they staged mass demonstrations in Zhong Nan Hai (not a very wise choice).

I would think it makes more sense if the US complains about the much lower per capita caloric intake for a Chinese citizen...but it seems like that what can come out from a citizen's mouth is more important than what keeps them alive.

[Aristophanes]

Well, to tell you guys, Falun Gong was just another Qigong school that was mostly composed of old men and women. They coexisted with the CCP for several years until the CCP decided to smash them...and this only occured when they staged mass demonstrations in Zhong Nan Hai (not a very wise choice).

I would think it makes more sense if the US complains about the much lower per capita caloric intake for a Chinese citizen...but it seems like that what can come out from a citizen's mouth is more important than what keeps them alive.

It isn't atypical of you to completely ignore the correlation between freedom and prosperity, or, as you would have it "what can come out from a citizen's mouth...what keeps them alive."