whats better than obudshaer?

[crzyrndm]

Looking at infantry only, danish obudshaer rip through anything I can think of(this is after the dismounted huscarls rip through first). Anyway there dosent seem to be a good counter to elite halberd units other than crossbows at half a metre.
Is there anything else that can consistently kill halberds?

[Blaze of Macedon]

Are they bulletproof?

But seriously if we are thinking about the same unit then i don't understand what you're trying to say since i'm sure those Danish guys aren't all that good. They can form spear wall but have less men than pikemen. They're attack is AP but other than that...

Zweihanders, DFK, DCK, AS... they would all pwn them. Wouldn't even want to think of the raping they'd get from some Conquistadores...

[... where did it run?]

On face to face basis, those danish guys kills DFK's. But that's becouse of spear wall.

[Blaze of Macedon]

I'm not quite sure about that - the stats difference is immense IIRC (something like -5 on the attack and -10 on defence in comparison to DFK)... I'll check it out when i'm home but i'm pretty sure they're not that good.

[KnightOfPortugal]

Have you only playing with Obudshaer then? I'm damn sure even DFKs beat them.

[crzyrndm]

Its the destructive nature of the halberd combined with the unit effectivness of spearwall. Ever noticed that most halberd units seem really awful stat wise but are really far down the tech tree.
They seem to be slightly less effective than 2h axes against cav but the animation is quick and deadly against inf. I rely on them and swordstaff militia alot as denmark because of the lack of any useful spears.

Seriously test a (apparently) crappy Western halberd militia against a medium->heavy inf and be prepared to be shocked. Then imagine double stats.

EDIT

Just got back to my computer to do some testing
Obudshaer vs Dis Feudal Knights

Obudshaer
Attack 11
Defense 12
Charge 5

DFK
Attack 11
Defense 18
Charge 3

Spearwall on, bracing
Battle 1 45 Obuds left 14 DFK General of DFK died at 14
Battle 2 44 " 3 DFK General never dies
Battle 3 45 " 4 DFK General never dies
Also they act like pikes without swords in that 2 or 3 lines can attack at once and almost all the casualties happen just after the DFK charge after the kill the front rank the DFK cant seem to reach them.

Spearwall now off and obudshaer are charging DFK as well instead of standing still and bracing in spearwall formation.
Battle 4 47 Obuds left 3 DFK General never dies
Battle 5 38 Obuds left 3 DFK General never dies
Initially DFK got 10-15 casualties from Obudshaer charge but obudshaer never fully removed DFK from range so continued to take staeady casualties right up to the end

Charge then form spearwall
Battle 6 50 obuds 21 DFK General dies at this point
Battle 7 42 obuds 5 DFK General never dies
No apparent change from charging and no spearwall in the fight mechanics

The fact that the DFK which have a moral of 9 rout as soon as the general dies just shows that the Obudshaer are killing them really quick to drop it that fast. Also if the DFK couldnt get a charge in eg. behind a gate the obudshaer would recieve even less casualties. Also if flanks were supported closely there would be less casualties post charge as almost all came from the DFK's spilling around the side of the spearwall

EDIT

Just completed a siege defense of a city as the danes in campaign
A single unit of sword staff militia(the militia equivalent of Obudshaer) gave 291 kills for 29 casualties from sitting behind a breach in the wall(not the gate so no burning oil just swordstaves with spear militia backup)!!
was facing an italian stack that had DFK and armoured seargents as its main components

EDIT

In response to someone saying conquistadores/NW cuirassiers would beat them I ran some informal tests. Gave the obudshaer to the AI and got a couple of conquistadores for myself.
sending conquistadores one at a time with no charge the obudshaer killed 120 of them before the general died and they fled on the third unit with 14 men left.
Thing is the AI kept engaging in melee and then facing backwards every time I ran one of these tests. If the same test was run with no bug I would estimate at least 20-40% more kills thats 2-3 units each. Imagine 5, or better 20 obudshaer.

[SamTheLongCaped]

Obudshaer
Attack 11
Defense 12
Charge 5

DFK
Attack 11
Defense 18
Charge 3

I'm not quite sure of those stats, the Faust guide gives these numbers for those two units.

DFK

Attack 13

Defense 21

Obudshaer

Attack 9

Defense 12

Charge bonus was the same. Plus, testing only with frontal charges really distorts one of the big disadvantages of Obudshaers. Obudshaers are slow compared to DFK. In battle you could easily out flank an unsupported Obudshaer. An army that wants to keep em alive has move up slowly, and that can be dangerous, especially against tough archer factions, like England. You really don't need to be at half a metre to decimate slow moving Obudshaers. I'm not saying they're bad or anything, but they're certainly not overpowered.

[... where did it run?]

Well.. they are DEFENSIVE infantry. They shouldn't be walking long distances anyway. Alltough I found aventuros to be fast walkers >.<

[EP!anastasi]

...Anyway there dosent seem to be a good counter to elite halberd units other than crossbows at half a metre.

Umm, why only half meter?

Is there anything else that can consistently kill halberds?

I'd use any ranged unit against such an infantry unit, the more range, attack and speed they have, the better. So the best for me to use against them would be either Genoese/Pavise Crossbowmen, Musketeers, or some kind of javelin or archer Cavalry. Or maybe some artillery like Serpentines and Mortars.

[Silverheart]

To kill halberd units all you need is missile units (any type of unit - javelins, crossbows, bows, guns, muskets - they all work) cavalry (charge´em in the rear!) or a combination of infantry with cavalry (lock them in place with infantry and charge from behind with cavalry)
They are really useless in AI hands, because they always fall behind and are easily isolated, and their slow movement speed makes them so little of a threat that I don´t even consider them dangerous at all.
Halberd militia or Obudshaer/Aventuros/Tercios/Higland Noble Pikemen makes no difference - they all have the same weakness: a kick in the behind and they´re running...

Now, in MY hands, it´s completely different of course.

[crzyrndm]

I was asking so I knew if there were any thing other than the standard response to 2H inf (archers of any sort) that I had to look out for as the danes.
Crossbows at half a metre kill almost half the unit in one volley more if crossbows and halberds are in a line 2 deep.
Apparently the awnser is I dont have too look out for anything as I make sure to keep in formation, counter charges to the rear, and I keep a small number of cavalry nearby to deal with archers.
So in my opinion the most Elite heavy infantry is Obudshaer, papal guard(the one with halberds), and JHI, maybe the french voulgier(not sure how it peforms). these have no apparent counter other than archers and most are heavily armoured so armour piercing is a must to kill them in a hurry.

halberd inf attack =

[Silverheart]

Congrats to you for mastering halberd warfare, then.
I, on my side, prefer to only use halberdiers for defending breches in cities, and even then I spam them. I do also like to bring one or two units of halberdiers or pikeneers with campaign armies, but those are mostly used as a defencive core to deploy the rest of the army around - I´ve only a few times before seen any impressive results from them, and they often let me down whenever I rely on them to do what I have seen them do before.

Also, I´m best at cavalry and artillery warfare, so it´s not surprising that I´m not very adept with other types.

[kingtigertank]

In vanilla, if anything, halberd units are all underpowered. Yes, they're animations make them better than their stats suggest, but it doesnt make up for the massive stat difference. And Samthelongcaped stats are correct:

DFK

Attack 13

Defense 21

Obudshaer

Attack 9

Defense 12

In kingdoms, which I believe cryzyrndm got his set of stats from, halberd units are better compared to the other heavy infantry, and 1v1 will beat dismounted chivalric and dismounted feudal knights. However you'll have to consider their high cost (for obudshaer, swiss guard etc) when getting them.

In my opinion, halberd units are definitely underpowered and quite weak in vanilla, and in kingdoms, I think they are no longer weak, but still underpowered due to their high cost to power ratio.

[... where did it run?]

They are way cheaper to upkeep than dismounted knights. Unless you are solely talking about multiplayer, then you have a point.

[Cheator]

Varangians rip them to shreds

[Doge Domenico]

Venetian Heavy infantry rape them in the booty. As do Conquistoders, And any ap bowman. Hell, I dont even want to know what happens when they meet "fixed" pikemen.

[crzyrndm]

Sorry, Wasn't aware that GUAM changed their stats to the kingdoms version. With the updated stats they do kill almost anything

[the new username]

lol yesterday i made a custom battle denmark vs hre, all armies were renaissance style. since denmark doesnt have pikemen, i used obudshaer, and guess what:they killed the DIKs easily but when the landsknecht started to attack they just routed! landscnecht beats obudshaer