Bow Ashigaru Test

[LoneTophat]

I just finished a test to see if archers are really as overpowered as people say they are.
I basically set my map up with 2 rows of a full stack of Ashigaru Bowmen in the woods across from a full stack of Yari Ashigaru. There's quite a bit of water between the two forces. This was on normal difficulty in custom battle obviously. I ended up slaughtering them by the thousands. With ONLY MISSILE TROOPS.
What the !!!

Part of the Beach: D-Day 1550



And the end scores:


Edit: I probably should have taken pics of the Yari with 12-20 arrows in their groins/heads.

[Drtad]

Well I don't think anyone should make a habit of charging yari ashigaru at a horde of missile troops anyway.

[M2TWRocks]

Now try the test with all light cavalry charging at your archers, then all light cavalry charging at ashigaru spearmen. Archers are great under the right circumstances. But so is everything else.

[Shaio]

Full missile army also wins against default armies the AI gets in custom battle... bows seem much more effective compared to anything.

[hippacrocafish]

When the mods start coming out I hope they can fix this, I'd like to see increased range but drastically decreased accuracy.

[Codeman90]

When the mods start coming out I hope they can fix this, I'd like to see increased range but drastically decreased accuracy.

So why the hell would I ever get archers if they weren't good at one they were designed for. Killing infantry. What bloody surprise. Thats what cavalry is for. Hey did anyone else notice that those archers had max experience? Or that the infantry had to walk through a damn RIVER to get the archers!?!

[LoneTophat]

So why the hell would I ever get archers if they weren't good at one they were designed for. Killing infantry. What bloody surprise. Thats what cavalry is for. Hey did anyone else notice that those archers had max experience? Or that the infantry had to walk through a damn RIVER to get the archers!?!

It's not max

That is interesting that the bows cab do that but If you run that battle as the yari ashigaru, I bet you would win too.

I probably would have won it yes.

[hippacrocafish]

So why the hell would I ever get archers if they weren't good at one they were designed for. Killing infantry. What bloody surprise. Thats what cavalry is for. Hey did anyone else notice that those archers had max experience? Or that the infantry had to walk through a damn RIVER to get the archers!?!

Point is that they can murder any infantry unsupported, cavalry can't counter archers unsupported.

[Abriael]

Point is that they can murder any infantry unsupported, cavalry can't counter archers unsupported.

Cavalry can easily beat archers unsupported, actually, especially given how fast they are at manouvering in S2TW.

[Thoragoros]

Point is that they can murder any infantry unsupported, cavalry can't counter archers unsupported.

The fact is, he charged the lowest infantry type in game against the game's standard archer unit.

I really wonder why anyone would have expected a different outcome given the setup.

[Raimeken]

The fact is, he charged the lowest infantry type in game against the game's standard archer unit.

I really wonder why anyone would have expected a different outcome given the setup.

Its like charging town militia at Cretan Archers (Rome) or Longbowmen (Med2)

[Maizel]

You call that overpowered?
I call it logic.

I don;t think any test where people just run straight into archers can be called a test to see if the archers are overpowered. Especially when you use Ashigaru, who get demoralized and break when 1 guy in the unit stubbs his toe.

Also. a full bowmen army should almost be twice the cost of Ashigaru.

Had you spent that money and put some cavalry or katana samurai in the mix, it would probably have gone much better.

I don;t think they;re overpowered at all. Powerful, yes.

The only nerf they need in my opinion is less ammo.

[Bow-wow-wow]

That is interesting that the bows cab do that but If you run that battle as the yari ashigaru, I bet you would win too.

[Tyler_the_Great]

Archers get overrun by katana sword infantry very fast. Try multi, many people do not take any archers at all or just as a maet shield.

[Abriael]

Oh wow, what a discovery. A whole lot of people shooting stuff wins against another lot of people that can't shoot back.

[Koolhan37]

Well I just did a simple test to see for myself as well. I simulated what I mostly see in campaigns and especially after mid-game.

I chose 5 bow ashigaru at level 4 experience(they start out level 4 after the fourth tier castle I believe).

The enemy army consisted of 5 yari samurai at level 2 experience.

No Generals.

I won a close victory, doing no fancy stuff, just line to line. The only movements I made were to attack new units in melee after the initial enemy unit had routed. I didn't even focus fire my archers, I just let them shoot whatever.

You can test this for yourself with perhaps mixed results, as the end was pretty close, but still....

Battle was fought on Normal.

[Death_Sheep]

I posted this replay earlier, in another thread.

This is when I attacked the Ashikaga stack outside of Kyoto, which brought in the entire Kyoto garrison. Which consisted of primarily samurai archers ranked with the little red circle with some melee troops thrown in.

I even waited for them to form up together. Then charged uphill.

This is on Normal/Normal. Take that archer armies! Not so tough without your walls and with your general all sick and everything eh? Eh!?

Pardon the long wait time, as my army forms and reforms, my general does something a little foolish in the begining (Dragon of Echigo indeed ) and the long march as I reform my troops at the base of the hill.

[Koolhan37]

Well I just did a simple test to see for myself as well. I simulated what I mostly see in campaigns and especially after mid-game.

I chose 5 bow ashigaru at level 4 experience(they start out level 4 after the fourth tier castle I believe).

The enemy army consisted of 5 yari samurai at level 2 experience.

No Generals.

I won a close victory, doing no fancy stuff, just line to line. The only movements I made were to attack new units in melee after the initial enemy unit had routed. I didn't even focus fire my archers, I just let them shoot whatever.

You can test this for yourself with perhaps mixed results, as the end was pretty close, but still....

Battle was fought on Normal.

I'm just going to quote myself because 90% of the people replying in this thread don't seem to actually be reading any of it.

This was on plain grassland, nothing fancy.


Test this for yourself, something people don't seem to be doing. Yari Samurai should slaughter Bow Ashigaru in melee, but they don't because of this dumb RPS system of "Anything with a sword can beat/hold against anything with a spear".

[Omar Nelson B.]

Try it the other way around, you try the non-missiled army

[The Emperor of Down Under]

We should have to do a test for competency before we get to start topics and post comments.