Armor visuals a bit off: Over armoured Ashigaru, Edo-era Generals and Samurai all in Red

[magman]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it odd that ashigaru have a full suit of armor? Historically they would have maybe a helmet or a chest plate (yes, by the kamaruka era single-piece chest plates were common.). In any case these were not professional warriors, they were levies and were equipped with whatsoever they could find or their lord could provide them. I would love a MTW2 style model-update with armor/weapon improvements.

The second point is about general armor. I hate to tell you guys, but massive horns on a helmet or tusks or whatever did exist...in the edo period. These armors were largely ceremonial in a largely peaceful society, they were never intended to see combat. Kamakura era armor was more often than not simple, scarred and highly practical. Sure, horns are intimidating but they are also REALLY HEAVY. I would rather have a thicker helmet and you can keep the horns. Furthermore, the chainmail on the generals is most definitely Edo period. Fold steel can easily cut through it and it was primarily for ornamentation. The pageantry might make some people happy, but I want my samurai to be grizzled veterans who have spent their lives practicing murder by sword. They shouldn't look like courtiers from 1850.

Finally, and this one is just personal preference: Samurai families of any substantial standing had their own Mon, and colors. I would like to see that mirrored in the units. These were collections of large numbers of minor "knights" (I borrow the term, but the concept is similar) who pledged fealty to a lord, not a professional army recruited from the masses and uniformly equipped and armed. It might make distinguishing a battle line easier, but battle is supposed to be messy!

So all in favor of less armored ashigaru, more pragmatically armored generals and samurai of many colors let your discontent be known!

BTW I love this game!

[Hopit]

samurai of many colors is not happening in this game, or your computer will beck for mercy

[Googoo24]

All ashigaru seem to have in the game is a breast-plate and jingasa.

[Dileos]

It's a game, not a history text book. Give me good looking Samurai over accurate Samurai any day.

As said before, multi colored samurai would hit the people with lower tier GPUs pretty hard, and Ashigaru aren't really heavily armored. All they got is a breast plate and a helmet, and I think a few may have shin guards or something.

[HappyGoodVibes]

It's a game, not a history text book. Give me good looking Samurai over accurate Samurai any day.

As said before, multi colored samurai would hit the people with lower tier GPUs pretty hard, and Ashigaru aren't really heavily armored. All they got is a breast plate and a helmet, and I think a few may have shin guards or something.

Just saying that Roma Surrectum starts you out with some pretty raggy looking units, but when you hit the reforms you feel that much more badass when you start to field professional armies.

And I agree that the ashigaru look a little too armored up for peasant infantry.

[Cathal]

Leave it the way it is. I'd prefer Samurai looking like the way they're usually portrayed as.

As a separate issue, why would your computer beg for mercy by changing the colors of some of the models?

[Thoragoros]

Well, since I was a massive Kessen fan back in the PS2 days...I like the horns on Tokugawa Iyasou!

[Lusted]

The Kamakura period is before the games time period. Several centuries before the games time period in fact. Chainmail was definitely used on kote during the Sengoku/Azuchi–Momoyama period and horns were definitely worn on helmets, most notable Ii Naomasa and the horned armour set on the Tokugawa Daimyo is one of Tokugawa Ieyasu's. Ashigaru by this time were often well armoured.

[homefry]

i agree with the ashiguru and not having full armor.

it looks silly when i see these tough looking dudes go to battle and rout after 10% of the unit dies.

[Clone1710]

The story about the armor Tokugawa Ieyasu is wearing in this game is actually quite funny, at least what I read about it.

After Hideyoshi conquered the Hojo territories and the castle of Odawara, he gave them to Ieyasu as a reward for his help.
Hideyoshi was kidding that the rural nature of this present would make Ieyasu the "Cow of Kanto", so as a reaction to this joke, Ieyasu gave instructions to make an armor, covered over and over with cow skin and with big horns on the helmet.

This armor can nowadays be located in the Tokugawa museum of art in Nagoya.

At least that's what a book from Stephen Turnbull tells about this armor.

[Kamamura]

Of course it makes perfect sense. Daimyo conscripted peasants as cheap fodder and then spared no expense to purchase finely crafted armors to protect those clumsy, untrained troops. It's similar to Middle ages Europe, where feudal lords bled their treasuries dry to clad the last village idiot in full plate.

[Zoring]

Personally I am massively in favour of having historically accurate apparel for everyone. Although CA would never do it, a lot of people just don't care because it was a long time ago and the period is not familiar. Imagine if you did a WW2 game where the Americans were Blue the British Green the Germans Red it would look retarded (like company of heroes!) and people would want it changed. Just because it is 1500's Japan dosen't mean it shoulden't try to be accurate. Not that it ever will change, but i hope some dedicated modders can.

[The Emperor of Down Under]

When you make a game you can design the troops however you want.

[Raimeken]

Personally I am massively in favour of having historically accurate apparel for everyone. Although CA would never do it, a lot of people just don't care because it was a long time ago and the period is not familiar. Imagine if you did a WW2 game where the Americans were Blue the British Green the Germans Red it would look retarded (like company of heroes!) and people would want it changed. Just because it is 1500's Japan dosen't mean it shoulden't try to be accurate. Not that it ever will change, but i hope some dedicated modders can.

The historical accuracy is one thing, but there's also another, complaints on the other side. I was once browsing through the DLV forum, and I saw 'Bad unit detail?' and it showed a comparison of kingdoms and DLV. Kingdoms still had the bright bright colors denoting nationality, DLV had more grays and random colors in it while putting on alot of dirt overlay.

Just saying that from looking at the other end of the scale.

[Roboute Guilliman]

Personally I am massively in favour of having historically accurate apparel for everyone. Although CA would never do it, a lot of people just don't care because it was a long time ago and the period is not familiar. Imagine if you did a WW2 game where the Americans were Blue the British Green the Germans Red it would look retarded (like company of heroes!) and people would want it changed. Just because it is 1500's Japan dosen't mean it shoulden't try to be accurate. Not that it ever will change, but i hope some dedicated modders can.

Company of Heroes is a multiplayer game and the reason why they have colors is simply to make it easier to differentiate enemy from foe.

[Dileos]

Originally Posted by Zoring
Personally I am massively in favour of having historically accurate apparel for everyone. Although CA would never do it, a lot of people just don't care because it was a long time ago and the period is not familiar. Imagine if you did a WW2 game where the Americans were Blue the British Green the Germans Red it would look retarded (like company of heroes!) and people would want it changed. Just because it is 1500's Japan dosen't mean it shoulden't try to be accurate. Not that it ever will change, but i hope some dedicated modders can.

Company of Heroes is a multiplayer game and the reason why they have colors is simply to make it easier to differentiate enemy from foe.

Company of Heroes is a multiplayer game and the reason why they have colors is simply to make it easier to differentiate enemy from foe.

Yep, the Allies are blue and the Axis is red.

[magman]

I'm not really arguing here for absolute historical accuracy. They armies don't feel Feudal, which they definitely were. They feel like state-sponsored professional citizen armies. I would like to see more neutrals, especially on ashigaru. Dyes were expensive. It would make samurai pop more, as well.

I want my guys to look like cut-up battle hardened bad-a%^&* not like toy soldiers.

@The emperor down under: That is true. Which is never. Which is sad. But that doesn't mean I can't dream.

[Calax]

I'm not really arguing here for absolute historical accuracy. They armies don't feel Feudal, which they definitely were. They feel like state-sponsored professional citizen armies. I would like to see more neutrals, especially on ashigaru. Dyes were expensive. It would make samurai pop more, as well.

I want my guys to look like cut-up battle hardened bad-a%^&* not like toy soldiers.

@The emperor down under: That is true. Which is never. Which is sad. But that doesn't mean I can't dream.

Honestly, I can see why they wanted everyone colored your clan's color... staring at a mass of guys in white and wondering who the heck is yours probably wouldn't be fun. I mean, just take these for example (from my Date and Chokosabe playthroughs):
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59...30A17E7C1C7D1/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59...B2E30353A8E48/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59...A15B5BD421C83/

It'd be really hard for me to figure out exactly where people were facing and set up if they were all white with flecks of color.

As to the helms? That's probably so that you can get more into the RPG side of things (which they're trying to do with their traits system etc).

[Thefallenhun]

I like to think of it as I'm an omniscient god being bestowing my leadership upon this clan, and through my superior economic and tacitcal manuvering, I can equip my troops with the finest arms and armor. Legendary Kenjutsu school + Master weaponsmith + Jujutsu encampment ftw

[Friedrich Barbarossa]

I like the look of the units. I hate fighting with armies looking like nothing more than a bunch of rabble.